Warburton Tuba Mouthpieces

[joh_tuba]

http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/tuba-mouthpieces
http://www.warburtonstore.com/tumo1.html

Plenty of discussion and charts comparing the various PT and Blokepiece models floating about but very little about Warburton.

The main sources of info are linked above and they leave a lot of important info out.

So what's the scoop?
Are there specific models that are 'cool' in the same way that there are popular PT models?
What mouthpieces are The Grail models copies of?
Are they only available in one shank size?
Info on the rim profile?
Are the standard models more in the Helleberg or Geib tradition?

Thanks bunches!

[happyroman]

The TG-1 and TG-4 are reportedly based on Helleberg stage mouthpieces used by Arnold Jacobs. The larger of the two (TG-1) is similar to, if not identical to, the AJ mouthpiece marketed by the Canadian Brass, which was originally manufactured by Warburton. The CB apparently switched manufacturing to Kelly after Warburton's factory burned down. From all I can gather, the smaller of the two mouthpieces (TG-4) was based on the Helleberg that Mr. Jacobs used for most repertoire, and may be the same mouthpiece Floyd Cooley used when he designed his Helleberg mouthpiece. Mr. Jacobs had Schilke make a slightly larger version of this mouthpiece for use on large contrabass tuba works like Wagner's Ring excerpts and Prokofiev.

Pretty sure they only come in American shank, but Euro could possibly be special ordered.

Conn Helleberg made two sizes of mouthpieces in the 1930s (as they do now), and I believe the TG-2 and TG-3 are based on the smaller version of these original Helleberg mouthpieces and the TG-4 is based on the larger original Conn Helleberg.

According to Russ Ward, David Fedderly was involved in the design of the TG-1 and TG-4 mouthpieces, and provided the stage mouthpiece used by Mr. Jacobs that was copied to make the TG-4. They originally called them the Holy Grail (HG) line, because the search for the perfect AJ copy reminded them of the search for the Holy Grail, which was later shortened to The Grail (TG) series.

I use the Cooley Helleberg for the majority of what I play on my 5/4 Rudy CC, and if the TG-4 is close to that, it would be a great mouthpiece. I am waiting on receipt of one of the original Warburton CB-AJ mouthpieces from before the fire, but the USPS has misplaced it, GRRR. I think this MP is probably similar to the Schilke Helleberg (not the Helleberg II), and the Laskey 28H.

[doublebuzzing]

The whole Arnold Jacobs Canadian brass/Warburton thing is puzzling. I have seen no less than 2 or 3 different looking mouthpieces (different shaped exterior, at least) labeled that same way (excluding the solo fiasco). He is finally selling them without Jacobs name on them at least.

[happyroman]

The whole Arnold Jacobs Canadian brass/Warburton thing is puzzling. I have seen no less than 2 or 3 different looking mouthpieces (different shaped exterior, at least) labeled that same way (excluding the solo fiasco). He is finally selling them without Jacobs name on them at least.

The Arnold Jacobs Solo mouthpiece, if I remember Brian F's posts correctly, were put out by Kelly, not Warburton, after manufacturing of all the AJ mouthpieces was switched to Kelly by the Canadian Brass. The switch took place at the time of Warburton's factory fire, but I have also read that the CB gets better pricing from Kelly. My understanding is that, even after Warburton was back up and running, he was initially not manufacturing tuba mouthpieces for a while.

Since the mouthpieces that are called Arnold Jacobs Heritage are marketed by the CB, Warburton can't also call his mouthpieces by Mr. Jacobs name (which is an assumption on my part). I believe this is why they use the Grail reference and simply say they are replicas of original, or 1930s vintage, Hellebergs.

[MikeJ]

For what it's worth.... The origin of the Arnold Jacobs is as follows. It was loaned by Mr. Jacobs to Canadian Brass tuba player and longtime student, Chuck Daellenbach, who gave it to Warburton to copy and return in short order so Mr. Jacobs could use it for a performance a night or two later. Chuck kept a small number of these initial mouthpieces to use for future copies. Warburton did initially make the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model and did a very good job with those mouthpieces for several years. The mouthpieces were only switched to Kelly for a brief period when Canadian Brass was unable to get the mouthpiece from Warburton. Since 2011, Bob Tucci of Perantucci mouthpieces (who also studied with Mr. Jacobs) has been manufacturing the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model and has been making a terrific mouthpiece copied from one of the first generation. Currently, the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model is the only one that was actually approved by Arnold Jacobs and also the only one with a contract that compensates his family.

Mike

[happyroman]

For what it's worth.... The origin of the Arnold Jacobs is as follows. It was loaned by Mr. Jacobs to Canadian Brass tuba player and longtime student, Chuck Daellenbach, who gave it to Warburton to copy and return in short order so Mr. Jacobs could use it for a performance a night or two later. Chuck kept a small number of these initial mouthpieces to use for future copies. Warburton did initially make the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model and did a very good job with those mouthpieces for several years. The mouthpieces were only switched to Kelly for a brief period when Canadian Brass was unable to get the mouthpiece from Warburton. Since 2011, Bob Tucci of Perantucci mouthpieces (who also studied with Mr. Jacobs) has been manufacturing the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model and has been making a terrific mouthpiece copied from one of the first generation. Currently, the Arnold Jacobs Canadian Brass model is the only one that was actually approved by Arnold Jacobs and also the only one with a contract that compensates his family.

Mike

This is really good information. Thanks so much for posting this, Mike!

[GC]

There are other Warburton tuba mouthpieces that predate the Grail series. My favorite contrabass mouthpiece was a Warburton 30D. I'd still be using it if I hadn't switched to Eb. I plan to buy a smaller Warburton for my Eb sometime soon.

Update: bought the T.G. 4 for use with a 3+1 compensating Eb for darker, lower pitch works. Still use RM-9 for the higher stuff.

[tubazach07]

I just bought a Warburton TG1 a month ago in euroshank. All you have to do is order it online and in the comment box request for it to be made with a euroshank. It is the same price as the American shank version. You can also call and order it over the phone. They do offer military discounts.