York 33

[roweenie]

My comment was not sarcastic. There is a passionate group of york collectors.

Yes, I know. I'm one of them.

Considering 4 valve front action yorks never see the light of day...this is the next best thing!

First half, true, second half, your opinion, not mine.

I don't buy the 6/4 valued more. Ask zach selling his 91.

This is absolutely not true, according to the evidence I've seen. I watch for these horns very closely; going rate for the 91 is usually in the $3000 range; I've never seen a York 33 go for over $1000. Although it's quite possible (and I'll concede) that one in really great shape may command a little more than that, it doesn't approach the prices asked (and received) for the Model 91.

As far as Zach is concerned, I've been watching his story, too. It's not exactly a great idea to very publicly buy a horn (every single stage of that saga was serialized for us on this forum) for $4000 (a very nice horn, but a tad overpriced at that figure) and then a few months later try to sell it to exactly the same people on the same forum for $6000.

I think a nice full size like this could command a lot. Not 5k...but a solid offer.

Define "full size". I believe those 33s have a .656 bore, same as the monster E flat.

Yes, it's not worth $5000 - on that, we can agree, and that was my point, all along.

Value is extremely subjective; "one man's meat is another man's poison", I guess. I'm willing to be educated, but the facts simply didn't justify the price tag, that's all.

[windshieldbug]

with no obvious damage or repair that I can see

Other than neatly done main tuning slide modification...

[bort]

with no obvious damage or repair that I can see

Other than neatly done main tuning slide modification...

Well duh, of course I meant other than that...

[roweenie]

...if somebody wants it enough, they will find a way. I've overpayed with zero regrets.

Exactly, agreed. Value can be highly subjective, within parameters.

The last 4/4 4 valve recording york i remember being sold was on this forum was a large sum that i said to myself would never sell...but did. 

Yes, I recall that horn, too. It was side-action, which generally will command higher prices than top-action horns will - I was not surprised at all by its final selling price. The bell-front feature can be remedied relatively easily, raising the usefulness (and therefore value) even more.

If zach really wanted to sell his horn for the highest price, i would move it to the bay and open it to the widest audience

Agreed here, too, but Zac's mistake was not necessarily posting his horn for sale here; the Tubenet is a great resource to reach other serious tuba players, and horns change hands here quite frequently. It wasn't even the fact he was asking $6000 for it (although that price was, at least in my opinion, quite inflated, which certainly didn't help); it was trying to make a $2000 profit (which he is certainly entitled to, if he can get it) when EVERYONE here knew the transaction's entire story, in intimate detail, from beginning to end, and was recent enough to be fresh in everyone's memory.

[bort]

I'm not saying that Lee priced the horn wrong, but it happens all the time that people buy something at one price, then try to sell it at another. Sometimes it's because they are trying to flip it and make a profit. Sometimes it's because the original price was too low.

I once sold a tuba here, and listed it at a competitive price. However, there was one specific tuba of the same model, that several years ago, sold at a fire-sale price. So, I had more than one offer for my tuba that was equal to the fire-sale price (or just slightly more). We're talking about thousands of dollars less.

For this York 33, I think maybe it's a little high, but it's a starting point with a "best offer" button. I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer. Worst that will happen is that they say no.

PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

[roweenie]

PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

I disagree; in point of fact, it actually is just as relevant, maybe more so. The gradual reduction of price proves the influence of market forces, and therefore real (not perceived) value.

I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer.

Change "often" to "always", and your statement will be more accurate.

As a side note, I honestly don't think Zac was trying to "flip" that York. As I followed the story, I saw a young man who was absolutely in love with the idea of owning a Model 91, and then quite possibly realized later that it wasn't his "cup of tea", for whatever reason. I think we've ALL been there at one time or another in our tuba-playing lives.

[bort]

PS -- last I checked, Zack's tuba was listed at $3950. So, not entirely relevant to this discussion anymore.

I disagree; in point of fact, it actually is just as relevant, maybe more so. The gradual reduction of price proves the influence of market forces, and therefore real (not perceived) value.

I was thinking in terms of "here's what it costs today, is it too much?"

I think it's often foolish to pay full price when there is an option to make an offer.

Change "often" to "always", and your statement will be more accurate.

Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

[roweenie]

Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

Wow, quite the obscure scenario, but I see your logic. You must be an attorney.....

[bort]

Well, it depends on whether you *would* pay full price for it, but just *don't want to*. I didn't say "always," because of this scenario: you make an offer at the same time someone else shows up to pay full price. Doesn't matter who got there first, you're not going to win it. Then again, if your best offer is a "no way I'm paying a dime more than this" offer, then it all works out okay.

Wow, quite the obscure scenario, but I see your logic. You must be an attorney.....

Not an attorney, that's for damn sure.

Probably happens more in real estate than buying tubas, though. It actually happened when we bought our place. We made a full-price offer, because it seemed like a good deal. There was a second offer that came in at the same time for less money. You can guess which the seller accepted.

I'm not sure if the other people were looking for a deal, or if they offered the max they would spend. Impossible to know, but not obscure... to me at least!

[roweenie]

Was taken off ebay. Bet it sold.

Yes, but for how much?????? Alas, we may never know....

Sorry...didnt know real story of the 91! It listed on lee's site for 6k first but i just assumed it went for less.

I might be mistaken, but I seem to recall Mr. Stofer offering that horn for somewhere around (+/-) $4000 on his website, not $6000.

[roweenie]

Which one sold for asking price - the 91, or the 33?

If you mean the 33, all I can say is, "unbelievable".

[roweenie]

And it sold for the asking price.

So, how do you know this? Did you buy it?

Just curious, that's all.

[roweenie]

I asked if it was still available and was informed it was sold.

And you know it sold for $5000 because the seller told you so?

[TheGoyWonder]

Wow, if I had money and need I still wouldn't approach half that much (the ~$4000 it surely sold for offline or on Paypal). yea it's gorgeous, but dunno if it impresses anybody besides 20% of tuba players who are connoisseurs.

For the same money, a new-style 2341 seems to be the modern incarnation of this design, probably by no accident. smallish bore, similar squat body footprint, same stubby but big bell shape. Just side action and a little bigger bore, which are most would see as huge positives. And not as cool-looking.

Conns of the era, even in equally unique designs and with equally nice engravings, are still affordable if you have the vintage itch. There might even be one still semi-active on the board.

[bort]

Man, you guys are brutal. As York appreciators, I would have expected you to think this was good news!

[roweenie]

Man, you guys are brutal. As York appreciators, I would have expected you to think this was good news!

Seriously! Makes me feel good other tuba players value them so much.

This has nothing to do with "being brutal", or "feeling good". It has to do with the attempt to apply logic to a situation that appears illogical (to me, in any event

The conventional wisdom that I've seen (up till now, anyway) is that side action York tubas of this size are generally more sought after (and therefore more valuable) then their top action counterparts. I've seen 4 valve side action York tubas languish unsold for months, with lower asking prices than what that Model 33 top action presumably (yes, presumably, we have no proof other than an unknown seller's statement to corroborate it) sold for, in a matter of hours. I'm just left scratching my head, that's all.

Realistically speaking, I guess I (or at least my kids, that is, since you'll have to pry these horns out of my cold, dead hands) should feel good about this - this means I'm sitting on a gold mine!

I think Ulysses Everett McGill put it best: "It's a fool that looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart".

[roweenie]

For something rare, all it takes is 2 or 3 other new people with interest and some extra change.

Agreed - "one man's meat is another man's poison".