Stainless steel equivalent of Conn 120S?

[TuBatman]

Do you have idea what would be closest stainless steel equivalent of Conn's bigger Helleberg mouthpiece? I'm perfectly happy with it as my F Tuba mouthpiece but just love the feeling of my Sellmansberger with contrabass tubas. So I'd like to get a sound and playability of Conn 120 but in steel. I'm aware of Kellyburg's and Houser's Parker and Sidey line-ups and probably some of G&W mps go pretty close too BUT what is closest to Conn's version? Never had a chance to test those mps and since I live in Europe it's rather hard to get my hands to those so I would appreciate your knowledge and opinions

[cjk]

You could probably send a Conn 120S to Dave Houser or Jim Kelly and have one of them make a copy.

[PaulMaybery]

I'll give a thumbs up to the Sidey Classic Helleberg. These are stainless.
Mine happened to come with that Gold Kote - whatever it is - over the stainless. Incredibly comfortable feel.
Paul Sidey also offers a solo version with the same rim set up. Also a fine piece.

Big Mouth Brass also has a similar MP that Dick Barth ships with the BMB tubas. It is excellent.
It seems to be brass with a silver plate

Both of these are similar to the 120 in that the rim is somewhat flat and the throat on the open side.
I use these interchangeably as the difference is barely noticeable. Both of mine have a euro shank so set out of the receiver just a bit, which I happen to like.

I like these Helleberg style pieces for several reasons.
The flat rim gives me a very positive feel on attacks, particularly when I'm having sinus issues or dry mouth, which in Minnesota seems to be on more days than not.

The thin wall of the Helleberg seems to offer, at least for me, a better chance to color the sound a bit more than on the heavy wall pieces.

I do have a set of 2 Monettes. 94 & 94 F. (Chester Schmitz Models) They offer a powerful and centered sound which I like for certain things, but unlike the Hellebergs, they seem to be less flexible in the tone color department.

So I find the Sidey is a great everyday piece that never seems to disappoint. Plus the Gold Kote seems to be somewhat scratch resistant. After about 2 years I don't even have any insertion marks on the shank. Not cheap, I think around $200 or so. Worth it? Yes!!!

[Dan Tuba]

The Kellyberg is very similar to the Conn 120S. The SSH has a larger ID larger throat, and a flatter/sharper rim. The Kellyberg is by far the closest I've tried to the Conn 120S.

[Donn]

In support of comments above about Helleberg inconsistency over the years, here's Mr. Sidey himself talking about copying "the 120S", from a great old thread from only a decade ago though it seems much longer (The Conn Helleberg.

In searching for a working replacement for my favourite old faithful, I never found another Helleberg type rim of the same width, shape or bite. I tried perhaps 30-40 different Conn Hellebergs from that era and I saw 30-40 different rims.

More in general, it seems to me that mouthpieces out of the Conn factory are a bit more funnel shaped than anyone else's, so that would be something to look for. I don't know the SSH, but given his general approach to the matter I would assume his cup profiles are quite similar.

[cjk]

You're aware of the SSH? Why not get one? It is a copy of an older Conn. None of the others are direct copies. I am not sure why you are asking this if you already know this. It *is* what you are looking for. You do know that the 120S (its name today) is a fairly inconsistently made mouthpiece that has changed a good bit over the many decades it has been produced. So you would have to tell us a lot more if you wanted suggestions to copy the one you have, which will be different from the five I own, which all are different from one another, as well.

Try the Sidey. If you don't like that you will need to have yours copied. I don't like mine as much as my favorite Helleberg, but I like it better than all the others. It is a well made copy of a good example.

What I am getting at here is that there is no standard for this mouthpiece save for its very basic shape concept. Conn sucked just as bad as Bach did with its notoriously inconsistent #18, which used to show wild variance in just a single shipment of them to a single music store.

Good luck.

The SSH is *based on* an older Helleberg. It is not a copy.

[Donn]

But that's how it generally works, isn't it? I recently got a Faxx HB. That's their business, you will see Faxx fairly accurately described as "well made CNC machined replicas of some classic tuba mouthpieces, made in Germany by Lausman" - but I bet a quarter no mouthpiece out of the Conn factory ever had a rim quite like this. It isn't a manufacturing error either, it's clearly a thoughtful design feature.

It's enough work to make an exact copy that I bet it almost never happens - the low budget copiers fail because they don't care, the higher budget because they do care and they tend to keep at it until it's a better copy than the exact copy they started out with. If it's cheap to make an exact copy, I'd like to get a classic Conn line started - things like the Conn 1/2/3, the 3B bass trombone mouthpiece etc.

[TuBatman]

Thank you everybody for your replies, seems I asked from right place!

To be more clear I try to define more what THINK I want since the specs of Conn Hellebergs don't seem to be very consistent... My Helleberg is from this decade so I THINK I want a mouthpiece with
- a deep, funnel-shaped cup
- flat rim with 32,5 mm inner diameter
- light mass (so no-go for Monettes etc)
-made from stainless steel

The reason I would like try a stainless Helleberg is that I like the feel of steel on my face and the feeling how it resonates. Nothing wrong with my current mouthpiece, just would like to experiment how it would work made from steel.

58mark, I haven't tried bloke's Solo cup, but as I have understood it's completely different design and sound idea what I'm looking for.

the elephant and Paul, there are a few different models of Paul Sidey SSH mouthpieces, what I checked the closest would be SSH-II with 32,6 mm rim, though it has slightly more mass than the Conn. Is that what you meant?

Dan Tuba, thanks for your opinion. I could first test a plastic Kellyburg and see if I like it. You could assume the stainless steel version is identical to it with dimensions.

Bloke, I have a friend who has your Grand Orchestra cup, I could give a try for it. You propably have Helleberg rims with 32,6 diameter also?. I checked from Houser's website and they had only modified Helleberg rims what I in my Symphony cup and what is something little different. I would play F tuba with the mp and 33,2 rim is just for me with F tuba too big.

I still would be curious about experinces with Houser's Parker cups, at least by Houser's website they should be also in the same league with Sidey and Kellyburg.
And with Parker-cup all of bloke's rims and shanks would be interchangables, am I right?

And yeah, I really could send my ConnHelleberg to be copied but that takes some time and for shure costs me a lot. And if there is already something close enough so I won't notice difference or so little that I can live with it's also futile. Kellyburgs I could propably find also from here Germany but not so likely Sidey SSHs. And if I buy everything for test, it would just cheaper to have mine copied. Heck, maybe I should just stick to my Conn...