Looking at used Wessex EEb tuba

[dhbtoo]

I know this is not what you usually find in the "For Sale" department, but I'm not sure where this should go. Maybe you guys can help.

A friend bought a Wessex Champion 2 years ago. At that time he paid $2825 for the tuba, case, extra gig bag, and shipping. He has decided to limit his tuba playing in favor of playing string bass. When he does play, he feels the Champion is just too much tuba for his needs.

All that said, he recently approached me about stepping up from my York model 377, 3 valve, 3/4 sized Eb to his Wessex. Basically he wants to facilitate a trade. He will take my York and some cash. He wants me to make the financial offer. I have no idea what a fair offer would be.

The considerations:
2-year-old Wessex Champion, lightly used with only a few blemishes, extra gig bag optional
cost new - $2825
6-month-old York 377 3/4, 100% dent free and almost no visible wear -- appears new
cost new - $750
Both horns play exrtremely well, but completely differently.

If you were the person wanting to trade the Wessex Champion to me, at what price level do you think you would feel insulted? How much would you realistically expect to get?

My apologies for putting this post in the wrong area. Moderator, please feel free to move it if desired.

[thevillagetuba]

This is difficult to say as someone not involved with the transaction. But...

Buying a new horn is kind of like buying a new car in that there is significant drop in retail value as soon as it is owned-this is more of a concern with horns from certain brands than others. I am going to assume, based on the price he paid, that it is a lacquered horn (correct me if I'm wrong).

Based on what I have seen Chinese horns go for and the fact that Yorks seem to hold their value pretty well, I would make the assumption that a fair market price would be around $2000 for the Champion (most of the Chinese horns I see that are more than a 6-12 months old seem to be sold for around 50-60% of what they would cost new and this 70% of what he paid) and $600-650 for your York (less of a hit because, again, Yorks tend to hold their value pretry well and it is pretty new without significant signs of use). Since you know each other, you might get a better deal, but I would expect to fork over anywhere from $1100-1400. This is a ballpark because I haven't seen a Champion go for sale and a search of the For Sale forum didn't turn one up, so a lot of assumptions are being made.

I'm sure other people who are more in tune with the market will weigh in and give you some answers backed by more experience than mine, but this should at least help somewhat. After all, it is ultimately up to how badly each of you wants to trade and how much money you're willing to spend and he to lose.

Hope this helps!

[michael_glenn]

I would offer either your horn plus $1000 or just his at $1600. That's around what those horns tend to go for used regardless of importer. (Usually anywhere from 1300-1600)

[Dustytuba]

I have been watching prices since about Nov. 2015. From my observations:
Eb tubas do not sell well, many repeats to sell on eBay, Eb tubas stay on This forum for a year or longer.
The last Made in China eb to sell on eBay sold for about $1000.
A few of the Eb made in China tubas that I have tried, sounded like dead ducks, one or two poor sounding tubas lower the price.
In my view, you MUST play any tuba, to see if it plays well, in tune, and clear in sound.
If I could play the wessex and it sounded good, the most I would pay is $1500.

[hup_d_dup]

Eb tubas do not sell well, many repeats to sell on eBay, Eb tubas stay on This forum for a year or longer.

I haven't found this to particularly true: there are examples of items of all types that don't sell well.

A few of the Eb made in China tubas that I have tried, sounded like dead ducks, one or two poor sounding tubas lower the price.
In my view, you MUST play any tuba, to see if it plays well, in tune, and clear in sound.

He already said the instrument plays extremely well. This means that, whatever the value of the instrument, it must be a lower risk (commensurate with a higher offering price) than an un-tried instrument on eBay.

Hup

[dhbtoo]

All replies have been helpful.

I do have the Wessex at the house, and I used it today in my quintet rehearsal. I am extremely impressed with almost every aspect of the horn -- great tone, fine intonation, excellent dynamic response -- overall a great horn. I'm not crazy about the appearance of the finish in that it looks like great care was not taken in the buffing process.

While I was thinking in terms of $1000 plus the York, I have decided to keep the York. I'm 65 years old, and, while I intend to play for several more years, I can't be sure how long I can manhandle such a beast. Besides, for my playing needs, the 4th valve is hardly ever needed. And the York is a fine sounding and free blowing horn.

By the way, the stock mouthpiece included with the Champion is one of the best stock mouthpieces I have experienced.

[ghmerrill]

I think it's wise to keep the York. I'm in a similar situation (with a Wessex Champion and a 1924 Buescher 3-valve), and I like the smaller 3-valve horn for some occasions (it's my "patriotic" and some-time holiday horn). The intonation is a bit wonky (I added a third valve kicker to it, and it played to A=435 when I got it), but it does have very good false tones and so a chromatic scale all the way down. It is MUCH lighter than the Champion!

I play with a tuba stand (which I built myself) and wouldn't want to play a reasonably large tuba without one. In fact, I wouldn't want to play ANY tuba without one. I'm about to turn 69 in less than a week. With the stand, playing the Champion isn't a problem. The finish on my Wessex horn is fine -- with only a couple of small blemishes -- and I had only a couple of other minor issues with it (one re threads on one valve cap, and one solder joint that broke and I fixed by myself). I think it's a great horn, and the raised lead pipe is essential for me. However, were I to do it over, I might well get one with a smaller bell.

[dhbtoo]

I ended up making the trade. Overall I am very happy I did. I do find the valve threads to be a bit too fine for my taste, but a bit of grease makes them work better.

I offered $1000 plus the York, and we settled on $1300 plus the York. We are both happy with the trade.

I really appreciate all the input from everyone.