Identifying a Sousaphone So's I Can Play It

[T-Roy]

Hello All!
I'm new here and this is my first post. I inherited a Sousaphone and have been working on getting it playable. It had been stored for 20+ years. It's been washed, and I got the tuning slides sliding and the valves valving.
Now I need a leadpipe, but I'll need to identify the Sousaphone first.
The bell very faintly says "American Professional", but since the bottom valve caps don't match, I have no idea if it is the original bell. I see no other markings.
Any ideas?
I think I am posting some photos below:




Here's links to the photos in case my posts don't work:
https://flic.kr/p/H3BgZX" target="_blank
https://flic.kr/p/GJsbRf" target="_blank

I'm looking forward to learning my way around a new instrument, so help would be greatly appreciated.

Yer Luvin',
T-Roy

[windshieldbug]

Name?
How about Susie McPhoneface...

Seriously, at least "American Professional" was a Lyon & Healey stencil.
Is there no number on any of the bell collar surfaces?
What about the valve casings for the body?
Sometimes a number or prefix will be a good clue.

[T-Roy]

You know? I thought I'd gone over it with a fine-toothed comb while working on it for a few weeks, but there's a marking plain as day on the second valve casing: 4479. Huh.
That 9 might be an 8.

"Susie McPhoneface", huh? Mmmmm... Prolly not...

[Donn]

I think I am posting some photos below:

I think you will need to change settings on your image site, in order to "share" images. When that's working, the pop-up window will have a "bb code" option, and you can paste the IMG part of that here.

Good photo ...


No idea what it is.

[T-Roy]

Thanks for the photo tips, Donn.
"No idea what it is." Heh. Yeah.

[T-Roy]

Well that's a good tip! Thanks, Lost!

[roweenie]

Looks to be a male bell collar which is rare...so your bell must be original if it fits it?!

Some Holtons had this feature, but the ferrules and valve caps look like Buescher...

[aqualung]

Measure the rod diameter on the socket braces. If they're a common fractional inch size, it's American. If they're a common metric dimension, it's Euro.
American axes usually have more than 4 digits in the s/n.

[T-Roy]

They appear to be common inches or fractions thereof. So probably American. Hurm.

[Donn]

But by 1930, Lyon & Healy had sold its brass instrument factory. American Professional is a Lyon & Healy stencil, as already reported by windshieldbug, but that doesn't mean they made it. Did the tags get switched and Buescher is really the maker, not retailer?

Not that it really matters, am I right? The odds seem very poor to me that this line of inquiry would lead to a good fitting leadpipe. I mean, let's say we track it to Buescher, which I doubt ... it's still an unknown model, true? and it's not like you can write to the piano company and say "you bought Selmer, Selmer bought Buescher, so I guess you have a box of old Buescher leadpipes for a sousaphone they made for Lyon & Healy?"

All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully, what could go wrong? I'm guessing that the normal L shape will work fine, though that's worth looking at.

[tubasaz]

.... All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully.....

Your Suza looks basically very cool! Valves have some compression left? All slides move? Water key(s) all right?
Get some leadpipe and some mouthpiece and start playing. Would be very interesting to hear how it sounds.
(my suza from 1950´s looked quite samelike condition when I bought it and now I cannot stop playing it!)

[Ace]

Wild thought: Could that horn be a Besson Sousaphone?

Ace

[T-Roy]

Wow. You all are super helpful. I am loving this project!
I've been sharing it with my twitter followers at #TheSousaphoneProject (I'm @cheekmeattroy) if'n you wanna see, but the real action is right here on this TubeNet thread.

.... All it needs is a normal leadpipe with a cylindrical tenon on one end that's the right diameter, right? Measure the socket carefully.....

Valves have some compression left? All slides move? Water key(s) all right?
Get some leadpipe and some mouthpiece and start playing. Would be very interesting to hear how it sounds.

Done. I've ordered up a mouthpipe and tuning bits (Conn a210 and a211) that very well might work with some spackle (kidding...kidding), and I'm hoping to make some sounds within a week.

Still would love to get some history for this horn who is probably Cassandra (but I'm holding out until I hear her prognositcations), so:

How about a close-up of the SIDES of the valve caps and finger buttons? (so we can see the cross-hatch pattern)

And because I think I still ain't figgered how to embed pics:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByHM1F ... sp=sharing" target="_blank" target="_blank

Really, all. I appreciate your interest and assistance.

Yer Luvin',
T-Roy

[Donn]

Does the look hint at an era? Looks old to me, like '30s, but that's just based on practically nothing.

[tubasaz]

Meanwhile T-Roy is getting the mouthpipe and -bits and -piece so can we try to speculate date of his Suza?

Here are images of valves of some old horns:

york_1929.jpg

boosey_1930.jpg

cornet_old.jpg

Just guessing but could T-Roys suza be from late 1920´s ? When looking his valve image it looks like older than these mine ?

[T-Roy]

It looks like mine is probably a little older than all but the bottom one judging from the wear, but it's been rode hard and put up wet, so...

[Donn]

Sometimes, I think I must be posting in white text...

Well, sorry! - help us out - where did you say something that could hint at a clue to the date of manufacture? The most I can see from you in black print is "nothing like Buescher" and "I believe it to be domestic." Maybe I have not captured the intent of your elusive utterance.

[Donn]

But it's 10 times as bizarre if it came from Conn, isn't it? I mean, why would they have done that, and evidently in very small production since no one's ever seen one, for a stencil?

On the other hand, there must have been at least a couple times in the history of musical instrument design, when inconsequential details were copied from someone else rather than designed from scratch.

To me it screams "check valve alignment!" but maybe that's just the picture. For those who hear "Conn!", is it saying anything about the time frame?

[T-Roy]

To me it screams "check valve alignment!" but maybe that's just the picture. For those who hear "Conn!", is it saying anything about the time frame?

Ha! It is not just the picture! She's got issues! I had to use considerable force to get the stem(?) Of the third valve straight enough to allow full motion.

My measurements indicated that the Conn mouthpipe was the closest to a perfect fit. She might have some Conn genes.

[T-Roy]

It would be interesting to hear whether those TOP caps can be screwed on to the BOTTOM threads (i.e. same casing threads: top and bottom)

The top and bottom caps are interchangeable and appear to be the exact same part.

It would also be interesting to hear whether some nearby school's old run-of-the-mill Elkhart, Indiana Conn 36K fiberglass or 14K brass sousaphone's caps fit your instrument.

I neither have nor desire access to schools.

Do you own some inexpensive calipers whereby the 1-2-3 slide bore can be measured?

I don't, but I will try to borrow some.