Rotary Valve storage

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Fri May 27, 2016 12:42 am

Hey guys, can anyone suggest a good oil to use for long-term storage of a horn with rotary valves? I haven't been able to play for several months, and likely won't be playing in the next couple years, but I want to keep my horn. Right now I keep my horn on a stand and actuate the valves a couple times a week, oiling when necessary, to keep the rotary valve from sticking. However, I'd really like to keep the horn in its case for the extra protection and not have to worry about opening the case a few times a week to work the valves.

arpthark · Post by **arpthark** » Fri May 27, 2016 12:53 am

How often do you oil your rotors now?

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Fri May 27, 2016 12:54 am

Maybe every 3-4 weeks depending on how they feel.

PaulTkachenko · Post by **PaulTkachenko** » Fri May 27, 2016 11:00 am

I have been using fairly thick oil (Hettman's stuff for bearings) at least on pistons. I'll wash it out when I use the tuba again.

I'll find out in July if it's worked!

Dan Schultz · Post by **Dan Schultz** » Fri May 27, 2016 11:20 am

Long term storage? The culprit is when the rotors dry out and leave behind hard water deposits and other gunk. If I was going to store a rotary horn long-term... I would give the horn a thorough chemical-cleaning and simply let it dry before reassembly. Oils would not be necessary and long as it is store clean and dry.

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Fri May 27, 2016 9:46 pm

bloke wrote:If not too inconvenient, you might choose to store all of the slides with one tube inserted and one not...

...as a way to get them out, just in case the slide tubes "lock up" against each other...

I'm not concerned about the slides, but the rotors.

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Fri May 27, 2016 9:47 pm

PaulTkachenko wrote:I have been using fairly thick oil (Hettman's stuff for bearings) at least on pistons. I'll wash it out when I use the tuba again.

I'll find out in July if it's worked!

I had thought about that. Clean the rotors then use a thick oil that will stick around. Then clean all that oil out when I bring it out of storage.

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Fri May 27, 2016 9:48 pm

Dan Schultz wrote:Long term storage? The culprit is when the rotors dry out and leave behind hard water deposits and other gunk. If I was going to store a rotary horn long-term... I would give the horn a thorough chemical-cleaning and simply let it dry before reassembly. Oils would not be necessary and long as it is store clean and dry.

I may try that (or at least give the rotors themselves a thorough cleaning) and see how it does after a few weeks before putting the horn into storage.

PaulMaybery · Post by **PaulMaybery** » Sat May 28, 2016 10:39 am

My vote would be similar to Dan's. Clean, degrease and dry them, and store them dry. Dry is key. Be sure ambient moisture is out of the horn. If you use chemicals, good god besure it is flushed and the chemicals totally out of all the tubes and crannies) Oils and similar products etc will often times tend to thicken and eventually harden into a varnish-like consistency. But I am talking about years of storage, not just a few months. But who knows, after you pack it away, you may, for any one of a number of reasons, not get back to it for some time.

Back to the chem issue, if you do that yourself, getting it all out is not easy. I have a good friend with a vintage York and he used CLR to clean things. He thought he flushed it. BUT ... each time he plays it the residue rehydrates. Then the next day the valves are frozen. Now he stores the valves and slides in a separate bag and is afraid to ever play it again. I could take care of it for him, but ....

Simple detergent and a good rinse and put them back in "dry" and don't even think about blowing it, until you are ready to oil up and take it for a ride.

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Sat May 28, 2016 7:18 pm

bloke wrote:OK...I'm concerned about neither, but only speaking from experience - regularly dealing with instruments that have been sitting around for a long time without their slides having been moved.
Oiling rotors only once a month (in contrast to every time it's played - as I do), I guess it's difficult for me to understand that concern.

Ideally I'd like to not have to worry about oiling the rotors on a monthly basis. Of course, if I have to I will, but ideally I wouldn't worry about it for several months at a time. That's the basis of my concern.

bort · Post by **bort** » Sat May 28, 2016 10:12 pm

What make/model is it?

insignia100 · Post by **insignia100** » Sat May 28, 2016 10:38 pm

It's a Mack Brass horn. Definitely not old enough to have developed any patina.

MackBrass · Post by **MackBrass** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:13 pm

Brass valves will oxidize and dry brass valves will probably freeze up on you. My suggestion is to oil them thoroughly, bearing and ball joints with a thicker oil and lots of blue juice on the inside. Check the horn once a month and re-oil as needes. I would not recommend using any synthetic oils on the inside as these develope a residue that will make the valve sluggish over time. All oils have an evaporation rate but blue juice seems to last a little longer than others. On horns i dont play often i will check the valves and oil when the time is needed. Be sure that when your ready to start playing it again to oil before you play.

balchb · Post by **balchb** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:27 pm

mctuba1 wrote:Brass valves will oxidize and dry brass valves will probably freeze up on you. My suggestion is to oil them thoroughly, bearing and ball joints with a thicker oil and lots of blue juice on the inside. Check the horn once a month and re-oil as needes. I would not recommend using any synthetic oils on the inside as these develope a residue that will make the valve sluggish over time. All oils have an evaporation rate but blue juice seems to last a little longer than others. On horns i dont play often i will check the valves and oil when the time is needed. Be sure that when your ready to start playing it again to oil before you play.

Do you recommend Blue Juice for regular playing? I'm using Hetman Heavy Key, Hetman Bering and Linkage and Al Cass piston oil down the lead pipe.

MackBrass · Post by **MackBrass** » Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:34 pm

I use the blue juice all the time and have been for years now. Instead of the hetman i recomend the super slick bearing oil as its non synthetic.

PaulTkachenko · Post by **PaulTkachenko** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 6:32 am

Update...

After about 9 months storage, the thicker oil method did nothing.

The clean valves didn't stick at all.

The moral of the story is get your tubas cleaned before storing them and it'll be fine.

hup_d_dup · Post by **hup_d_dup** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:06 am

Long-term storage of items with metal-to-metal contact is a problem more often dealt with by gun owners than musicians. A gunsmith may have the perfect solution.

Hup

swillafew · Post by **swillafew** » Sun Jul 10, 2016 2:25 pm

I like the thought about storing the slides out. I have a nice valve trombone, play it infrequently. I thought that a lot of Selmer slide lube would be prudent. After they all froze, my repair tech implored me to "store things dry" as he needed some extra force that he wasn't happy about.

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