Imported crappy horns

[Tubaryan12]

Hey, don't get me wrong, but I remember when folks used to say the same thing about Honda, Toyota and Datsun*. I do not work for a company that makes or sells discount instruments but I have bought a cheap instrument and I can't fault other parents that do. Just remember, for every kid in the band or orchestra that actually takes it seriously, there are 10 others that only use the experience as a social event (my viola playing daughter is one of these). If we can get more parents to let their kids try music with a low priced instrument then it is better for music and music education in total. I know a few folks that the price of the instrument was the only barrier to them ever getting to play at all. I am in that group. If it wasn't for a family friend that happened to have a trunpet in the closet I would have never started myself. If they want to stick with it they will eventually trade up to a better horn when they need one.

*now named Nissan

[MikeMason]

sometimes you have to ask yourself" am i buying a trumpet or am i buying what i want a trumpet to do for my child(help him learn to play,stay in repair reasonably,hold together reasonably,actually have the potential to make music,have the buttons go up and down when they're supposed to,be capable of being repaired by local facilities) i'm a horn salesman so am naturally biased,but, i've seen plenty of potential musicians lose interest because of bad horns or horns that were sent back to wally world while waiting for a replacement that will have the same problems when it finally gets here. if you want success for your child,plan for success. if you want musical failure for your child,choose another elective.if you're broke, buy an ugly bundy or olds(the original not the chinese) from ebay and have it chem cleaned by your local store. parts are even still available for these even though the horns haven't been made in years.that's one important difference between real and fake instruments.your child only has one shot at being a beginner,make it count...did i mention that i'm a horn salesman...

[Tubaryan12]

i've seen plenty of potential musicians lose interest because of bad horns

Real interest will seldom be thwarted by bad equipment. If that were the case most of us would have quit years ago

[MikeMason]

there's a considerable difference between an ancient fiberglass sousa made by a real instrument manufacturer and an object that looks like an instrument made in Pakistan or China. also regarding the import car comparison, what happened to the price of those cars as soon as they achieved any quality level? if you're really broke, let the kid play a school owned background instrument that will help you,the band program, and probably the kid when it comes time for competitions and scholarships... worked for me...

[ufoneum]

The eastern import market for these horns has been booming in the last few years. While they do provide an instrument at an extremely reduced price, there are often consequences involved - and the parent's should know about these concerns. Some of these would be:

- instrument does not function properly, or as well as a bottom of the barrel product from a reputable manufacturer.
- most repair shops will not work on these instruments, mainly because they cannot get parts for them.
- the child will end up being frustrated because he/she is working at a level above the instrument.

These instruments are being sold at major retailers and on online auction sites for one simple reason: They are cheap and they can turn a quick buck to the uneducated person. Parents need to realize that you can get a good quality used instrument for a reasonable price, or most music stores will rent you an instrument. There are options, and it is the responsiblity of the band department at their appropriate school to have a policy in place about educating the parents on these instruments. By the way, if anyone needs a nice trumpet shaped flower pot, I am sure that you could get one at Walmart!

[Dan Schultz]

OK. Yamaha was junk a few years back (and a few still are!). They pecked away at their quality until they found a level that the consumer will accept. The cheap foreign knock-offs will do the same thing. The quality will get better.
Send 'em to me. I'll work of 'em A lady brough in a Rosetti trumpet a few weeks ago that had sticky valves. An hour with a honing stone and a fine file removing burrs in the guide slots had the horn playing pretty well. It will get 'Little Johnny' through middle school and if he decides to continue playing his parents will probably buy him a better quality horn.
Anyone remember the Honda Civics from the early 70's? The Japanese actually fit every bearing in the engine on the production line because they couldn't make all the journals the same size We'll... us dumb Yanks bought 'em anyway because they were cheap! Some of the lucky ones ran for more than 50K miles.
Don't be too quick to discount the imports. They just fine for a 'starter' horn. Only an idiot would plunk down $1,500 bucks for a trumpet for 'Little Johnny' that might end up in a rummage sale when he loses interest in a year or so. After all... you'll be lucky to get $100 for that $1,500 trumpet when the bell is bent and a couple of the braces are broken

[Louis]

I have mixed feelings...

I actually did buy a used "Lark" euphonium a few years ago for about 60 bucks just out of curiosity... It's essentially unplayable. Here's what I use it for now:

http://forum.alex281.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=210

I played one other cheap eBay euph, and it was also garbage. I guess if teaching beginners to play in tune doesn't matter, and if the odd buzz or hiss in the sound is acceptable for a newbie, then it's OK.

I did also try one trumpet that a kid had, and it was actually decent. I think he got it new for about $125.

Generally, I would say that if someone can make a low-cost copy of a horn that can be played in tune with a decent tone, why not?

Lots of low-cost Asian copies of guitars are decent.

But I think what bothers me the most are some of the selling tactics I see. eBay descriptions like "why buy a used King or Conn or Bach when you can have a new (fill in the blank)? It just doesn't make sense, does it?" Or brand names like "German Engineering", etc. Or selling horns for a buck and charging $150 for shipping, etc.... If you peruse eBay, you know what I mean. Come on... Regardless of the horns' actual quality or lack thereof, it seems to be targeting the ignorant, which many instrument-shopping parents are. And that's just sad.

On the other hand, caveat emptor (or however that goes).

Also, "you get what you pay for." Usually anyway.

[MikeMason]

[Louis]

[ufoneum]

Notice he plays on a Alexander and a Miraphone. Hmm...

[Chuck(G)]

Well, all you need are good metal-working sklls, lots of time and hunk of Indian scrap metal and a "real" horn:

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.callard/EchoCornet.htm

Wonder if anyone's built an echo tuba yet?

[Chuck(G)]

"stupid snobs, go practice your horn, and don't talk the kind of trash that will discourage others from doing the same

Dale, I'm having a little problem parsing this little nugget. To wit:

"Don't talk the kind of trash that will discourage others from doing the same."

Doing the same what? Talking trash?

Chuck "chased the cat with a broomstick in his pajamas"(G)

[Louis]

http://freespace.virgin.net/andy.callard/EchoCornet.htm

Very good!

[Shockwave]

Why are these junky horns so bad? They are made of brass, and they seem to be soldered together, and the valves dont seem to be so tight that dirt will jam them, so what goes wrong with these horns? That Jin Bao sousaphone I tried at the NAMM show really played well, and one "made in india" Besson trumpet was extraordinary.

-Eric

[Kevin Hendrick]

Chuck "chased the cat with a broomstick in his pajamas"(G)

"... and how the cat got the broomstick in his pajamas we'll never know!"

[windshieldbug]

The ones that I've seen were (possibly?) engraved by Popeye:

"BESSONS"

Well blow me down (ark ark ark ark,... )

[Pippen]

[quote="wnazzaro"]I got a used Bundy clarinet from a pawn shop for $50, with case. Brand name, parts are available if repairs are needed. Repair people will actually work on it. The bass clarinet player in the orchestra I was playing with at the time was astounded at how good a deal I got. That's a beginner instrument.[quote]

I watched the pawn shops and thrift shops in my area for 5 months and if my son had opted to play clarinet or flute he could have been in business for $100 with a little repair work many times over. The clerks told me they rarely see low brass instruments here except for trombones and one shop had only one baritone come in in three years. The band director told me if I did find one at a pawn shop here it was most likely a stolen instrument.

Rental cost for a baritone was $50 a month for us (new--they didn't have any used ones which were $44). We paid $250 to make sure my son was going and watching the local market before giving up and going to ebay. Even though I wasn't tempted because I played myself I could see how others would be. The band directors warned us at instrument selection day not to get the Walmart (actually they said that "big discount store") because no one would work on them here. But they do instrument selection day in fall and it gives parents no time to buy through the used market since they need the instruments within a week or two and loads of people are shopping then.

[tubatooter1940]

A young sax player auditioned for me on a horn he got out of his uncle's closet-a very old,very crappy horn.The kid could wail on his horn but when I handed him a Selmer Mark VI,he couldn't get a sound out of it.Talent with desire will overcome.

[Dan Schultz]

I got a used Bundy clarinet from a pawn shop for $50, with case.

The plastic Bundy clarinets are almost indestructable If it weren't for moths eating the pads they would last forever. I buy and sell a ton of 'em to beginners as well as seasoned players. The pros have expensive clarinets but lots of them also have a plastic Bundy for those nasty outdoor gigs. I sometimes pick them up at rummage sales for as little as $10. I would never advise anyone to buy a $200 1st Act over a repadded Bundy (about the same money). Here's a situation where the imports should be avoided at every cost. Too bad tubas aren't as easy to come by

[Lew]

I got a used Bundy clarinet from a pawn shop for $50, with case.

The plastic Bundy clarinets are almost indestructable If it weren't for moths eating the pads they would last forever. I buy and sell a ton of 'em to beginners as well as seasoned players. The pros have expensive clarinets but lots of them also have a plastic Bundy for those nasty outdoor gigs. I sometimes pick them up at rummage sales for as little as $10. I would never advise anyone to buy a $200 1st Act over a repadded Bundy (about the same money). Here's a situation where the imports should be avoided at every cost. Too bad tubas aren't as easy to come by

Same thing with the plastic Selmer oboe. My daughter has kept her plastic Selmer 1492 so she doesn't have to bring her wooden one outside when the community band plays outdoors concert. The sound isn't as smooth, but it's fine for what she needs. Then again it IS an oboe, so what difference could it make.