Low articulation.

[Peach]

This has always been a weak spot for me and I'm wondering whether you fine folk have any thoughts about this topic - particularly starting notes quietly(!).

Is it all about working on breath attacks so that you don't actually NEED the tongue to start a note?
If so, what exercises can you recommend?

Ta.

[patricklugo]

this is an issue that i have been working for a while. it is an area of slow progress. try to watch videos of successful players online. there is a lot of information there on youtube.
brian bowman comes to mind and others. at the end, you need to figure out what works for you. have the Sound be your guide.. you can work on exercises in the arban book, tyrell, kopprach or make your own.

when i started to have success, it is when i made a priority to work on articulation every day. i spend a good time centering my tones, meaning long tone down there on time with the metronome. and articulation that get past the low range into the pedal range. grab a mirror and see if you making subtle changes in your embouchure. and most important ask your teacher.

i also discover recently when i start to play after a long day at work. i spend a good time breathing and blowing through the tuba until mind my is ready to play, i start to play the first notes of the day. i had issues with attacks for a long time and that really helped to calm my mind and get me ready to play.

i picked that up on masterclass in the internet that Roger bobo did years ago. and recommended doing that instead of grabbing a breath builder to work on breathing. because at the end we play the tuba so we need to learn how to move the air with it.

[Peach]

Oops. Mods, could you switch this over to the Tubenet forum....

Ffffff

[Will Hammer]

This sounds pretty crazy to most, but I don't even use my tongue for fast passages in the pedal register. Other than that, it's hard to say without seeing you in real life, but I used to work on making sure the air was the same for the beginning to the end of the note (in other words a "brick" of air). Then, I'd incorporate that amount of air into fast articulated passages, especially in the low register. You're essentially doing your long tone air but just spanned throughout many notes instead of just one. Thinking this way, you aren't thinking much about the tongue and more about the direction and the arrival point in the music.
An exercise I might do to combat this is start on a C below the staff, play a reasonably loud whole note, immediately followed by eighth notes, then sixteenths, then arrive at the whole note again to establish your relaxed level again. You'll realize, all of the air output for the different notes should feel the same, even though your tongue is making slight interjections in the air.
After starting on the C, move chromatically down to the pedal C on the same exercise. You'll find, doing the exercise in the extreme low register will really free up your articulation in the middle and upper register because of the delicacy needed for clarity down there.
One problem for starting notes quietly I've had in the past is trying to use super delicate air at the beginning of the note, resulting in not having enough air to form a buzz. Just always make sure you're using enough air to form a buzz, soft playing in the low register takes more than most people would think.

Hopefully that helps. I'll probably have a lot of people on here that disagree, but these are all things that have helped me in the past

[Alex C]

I would always suggest that a person should find someone in their area who has the skill they are looking for, probably a professional, and ask their opinion or, better yet, take some lessons. The bad habits a person has formed that keep him from fast articulation in the low register, won't get fixed in one or two lessons.

[Peach]

I would always suggest that a person should find someone in their area who has the skill they are looking for, probably a professional, and ask their opinion or, better yet, take some lessons. The bad habits a person has formed that keep him from fast articulation in the low register, won't get fixed in one or two lessons.

This is always good advice. In my case specifically here I was just looking for ideas to try out re tongue placement or things to maybe avoid.
As with most aspects of playing there certainly isn't one way for everyone so it's good to hear a range of ideas, even heating braces =)

[happyroman]

One thing to consider with respect to articulation (in any register) is that the lips must vibrate the correct pitch and the vibration must occur instantly. Yes, the tongue needs to be fast, but if the lips don't vibrate, what the tongue does is basically irrelevant. This (at least for me) is even more critical in the extreme low register. The lips must be trained to instantly vibrate these very low pitches efficiently and the response must be immediate, which is a difficult skill to learn.

The other thing to remember is that the lower we go, the larger the opening is at the lips. This means that the air flow will be high, but the air pressure needs to be very low. If we blow "hard" the lips will start resist the air flow and will not want to respond properly.

[k001k47]

I don't particularly buy into the notion that buzzing off the horn is very beneficial, but learning to buzz low - with little to no artificial resistance - helped me with immediate response. Maybe its the lack of pressure. MR.P suggested I try aiming for the opening of the chops with my low articulation. It takes some getting accustomed to, but its a unique attack worth adding to the arsenal.

[kontrabass]

Air attacks solve everything. Ultimate practice tool. When you can start the note cleanly with just your breath, you'll have it.

One of the things that trip people up is the concept that low notes take "more" air - they do - but we often equate that to blowing HARDER. Blowing harder restricts the slow vibration needed for those low notes. Think of your air instead like a river. High notes are a narrow, speedy stream. Low notes are like the Amazon - wide and slow.

[Peach]

I don't particularly buy into the notion that buzzing off the horn is very beneficial, but learning to buzz low - with little to no artificial resistance - helped me with immediate response. Maybe its the lack of pressure. MR.P suggested I try aiming for the opening of the chops with my low articulation. It takes some getting accustomed to, but its a unique attack worth adding to the arsenal.

OK. This attack akin to saying "pOH"?

Thanks for all the replies chaps. All instructive...

[k001k47]

Its kind of hard to explain phonetically, because we never place the tongue on the lips as english speakers, but I think it helps in the low range because we can hold that big OH syllable while articulating without having to reach the tougue up or close the jaw to make a TOH sound.

[imperialbari]

I don't particularly buy into the notion that buzzing off the horn is very beneficial, but learning to buzz low - with little to no artificial resistance - helped me with immediate response. Maybe its the lack of pressure. MR.P suggested I try aiming for the opening of the chops with my low articulation. It takes some getting accustomed to, but its a unique attack worth adding to the arsenal.

OK. This attack akin to saying "pOH"?

Thanks for all the replies chaps. All instructive...

I would doubt that as p gives a hard to control kind of exploding air.

Klaus

[swillafew]

Interesting to read about people hesitant to tongue for any reason. I think it's harder to slur down to, and back up from the lowest notes. Tonguing is more like a no brainer.

I practice tonguing still, after many years playing. Why wouldn't I when it's the first thing a listener hears? The mouth needs to be so far open in the low range that worrying about which consonant you choose is probably not very productive.