Sousaphone sympathetic resonance

[mjp]

Hello all,

I'm new here to the forum as well as the tuba world, and I have a couple of questions that I'm hoping to get some help with.

A little background: I played trombone from 6th grade through college, and now I'm a string bass player of 20 years who will double on sousaphone soon.

I just acquired an old Besson Eb sousaphone that I'll play until I can get a Bb sousa, hopefully an older Conn, but for now, this will have to do. Can't complain about a free sousaphone, but here it goes:

The biggest problem with the horn is that there is a terrible ringing or sympathetic resonance that occurs from almost all pitches, some worse than others. Is this just a poor quality instrument, or is it possibly something that I can remedy? If I reach up and hold onto the bell, the ringing is muted and the horn sounds better, but what a pain! Any ideas on what could be going on here, and most importantly, how do I fix it?

Mike

[toakstertuba]

Hey Mike,
I've got an easy cost efficient trick you can try. Try getting some clear plastic tubing (like for beverage lines for example). Get a strip long enough for the circumference of the bell. Cut the tube in a straight line down the whole length of tubing. Then put the tubing around the entire edge of the bell. This might just do it for you.

[mjp]

I figured there was a reason it was free! Yeah, it's definitely not a great instrument, but it'll have to do for now.

Toakstertuba, thanks for the suggestion, I'll give it a go. I was trying to come up with a clamp or some way of attaching a weight to the bell that wasn't in the way and/or crazy-looking. Yours sounds like a much better idea.

I do have my grandpa's old Pan-American Eb upright tuba (1930 or 31, I think) that is in good shape. It sounds really good, but I have to stand with it while playing and haven't found a comfortable way to do so. Maybe that's an easier problem to solve, and I do want the better sound. Admittedly, part of the attraction to the sousaphone is the look (this is for New Orleans brass band music), but standing and moving around with the horn is another big reason for choosing a sousa. I just can't get the upright to be as comfortable.

Mike

[Lee Stofer]

My experiences with Besson sousaphones has been good. When in proper working order, they are good horns. I would suspect that the bell wire (inside the bell rim) is loose, which could have happened in several ways. A good brass repairman should be able to help you with that. I would think that you could get some professional help with the instrument in San Antonio or Austin.

[iiipopes]

For all of the tubas and souzys I have owned, including present company, I go to the hardware store, purchase a length of clear plastic 5/16 tubing a little longer than the circumference of the bell, slit it lengthwise with an exacto knife, and fit it to the bell bead. Overring gone, tone improved. Total cost: @ $2.00 and 1 hour, including purchasing the tubing if the hardware store is close. Removable, does not mar the horn, and quite to the contrary, it can help defend against minor dings.

[toakstertuba]

... tone improved.

I'm glad I'm not alone on this thought. I was having some ringing happening on my f tuba but only on certain notes. I read about this trick some time ago so I thought I'd try it and not only did the ringing go away but I felt like I have a much better experience with the horn overall. I feel I can play louder without getting too edgey, notes seem to slot easier, and subsequently it's easier to play in tune. Unlike the heating of braces this is easy to test "side by side" and I wasn't sure if I was going crazy or if that bit of plastic was doing all this... leaning towards the latter but not ruling out both... but seriously, I guess it speaks to the concept of the bell kranz or garland or whatever...

[mjp]

Well, I will definitely try the tubing around the bell idea - easy and cheap, hard to beat if it works. If not, I'll look to a professional repair guy.

Thanks, I'll post the results...

[mjp]

Well, I finally got around to putting the plastic tubing around the bell yesterday. It helped some, but there is still a pretty bad ringing going on. I guess I'll have to get someone to look at it. Thanks for the idea...

[imperialbari]

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/sep2001 ... 71565.html

[mjp]

Interesting link. I'm not really into trying to solder the bell on or any permanent thing like that, especially if it may not even work. Besides, I do have a nice case for the horn and would like to still be able to use it.

Anyway, I'm hoping to get a Bb sousaphone, so I'm not going to worry too much about it. I have already been using my old Eb Pan-American instead, and it sounds pretty good, but I really want the lower range of the Bb instrument. On the Eb instrument, that low Bb and lower notes are so much harder to get to speak with any consistency and volume.

I'm sure I will try some other funky remedies for the ringing, and I'm sure some of them will be laughable. If one works though, I'll post it!

[DaveWright]

I used a Bb Besson in the 60s and the bell rang at A natural. With proper bracing the horn should conduct the vibrations through the horn not around the horn. The vibrations are felt on the bell but are created through the horn. Plastic tubing should help but won't solve the vibration problem. A few well placed braces will solidify the sound by eliminating the errant vibrations.

[largobone]

+1 to the plastic tone ring idea

However, if you did ever want to find a way to walk with the upright, or for whatever reason this doesn't work, you could always use a strap or a harness. They've been doing it for at least a hundred years in British Military/Marching bands with full-size 3+1 compensated Eb's, I'd think you could do it with (I'm assuming) a 3/4, 3-valve, non-compensated Eb. I know Wessex, MW, Neotech, and several other tuba manufacturers (especially British ones) make them.

There seems to be a common problem with sousaphones that aren't in BBb for whatever reason; you'd think in 2016 we could have a working sousaphone in Eb or Bb(8va), but what do I know?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbUz8hq62DY" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


Good luck with whatever you try.

[mjp]

All of the bracing on the horn is in place and in good shape, so I don't think that is the problem. If it needs additional bracing, I wouldn't know where to start with that. I would have to take it to someone and probably spend more money than I care to on it right now.

I was able to kill most of the ringing by clamping a piece of foam to the bell with a large office clip (along with the plastic tubing). It doesn't look too terrible, but I can probably make it look much better after I neatly trim off the excess foam and remove the clip handles from the prototype.

As far as standing and moving around with the upright tuba goes, I'm getting much more used to it. I do have a simple strap that I've found a pretty comfortable way of wearing, and now I can keep the horn pretty still even while walking.

Sheesh! At least my situation isn't as bad as the guy in the video that went for the little cheap souzy! That thing is unplayable!