Small C tuba vs F tuba for solo/quintet

[Salazarsam33]

Howdy folks,

I have a quetion for the veteran players of this forum in regard to F tuba vs C tuba in chamber music, quintet and solos.

How do you feel about a small cc like the yamaha 621, or a conn 2j in the role of playing solos vs and F tuba that you normally see used in that setting.
Can a small CC work just as good, better, or is the F tuba just too different in the way it sounds to compare.

I am asking because I am a Bb tuba player thinking of purchasing a solo horn, I love my Bb but it would be nice to be able to play solos and quintet/chamber music without sounding like huge bass subwoofer. I was thinking maybe a small CC would be nice to learn CC and get a lighter (and higher register) sound on the tuba, but my teacher recomendó I go the F tuba way since he deems it more versatile.

What do you folks think?

[Rick Denney]

Daellenbach plays a 621 C tuba in the Canadian Brass, and sounds great.

Pilafian plays a 621 F tuba in the Boston Brass, and sounds great.

The common element is sounding great.

I use a F tuba for most chamber music because I'm more apt to sound good for that sort of literature. I find I'm more secure in the upper register using F than when using a contrabass. Also, I'm more apt to find myself standing while playing In a small ensemble, and F tubas are easier to manage while standing.

Rick "for whom C was just like Bb only much more expensive, and F offered something different" Denney

[smitwill1]

I think that there are some previous threads describing how small CCs (Miraphone 184) gave way to Fs (B&S Symphonie) as quality-availability-styles changed up to today... Interesting stuff for folks like us that really like tubas... But, my gut feeling about your question as a "has been/never was" is 1) listen to the groups you're playing with and 2) listen to yourself. Does your current sound fit into the ensemble? Does it sound like there should be one more voice between yours and the next member? Well, maybe you need to move towards a more compact sound (which likely means a smaller horn). Is your sound lost in the mix? Maybe more presence or "depth" is required (by the same logic, means a bigger horn). Whether you can do it on a small CC or a large F (or small BBb or Eb...) is a matter of choice. What are you most comfortable using? Are you willing to spend time learning a new (to you) instrument to reach for your ideal sound for the recitals/groups you play/play in? Listeners care about the results--few folks really care about how you get them.
Just my $0.02.
Bill

[MikeMason]

My 2j with an f mouthpiece is my bass tuba at the moment. Maybe you could try its b flat brother ,the 4 j. Same/smaller bell than many f tubas without having to learn new fingerings. No,it won't give you f tuba facility and high register,but might get you close enough for your purposes. Everything is a compromise. Only you can decide where the line is.

[gregsundt]

...my teacher recomendó I go the F tuba way since he deems it more versatile.

This may be the most significant part of your question. Your teacher, to some degree, knows you and your situation, and may have sound reasons for recommending F. I always preferred playing an F in solo and quintet settings, but it does depend on the ensemble and the gig (My MM prof didn't agree with me, so I sold the F ). Having two options is always a plus, and one bass tuba along with one contrabass makes a great deal of sense.

[patricklugo]

i ask my self the same question? to learn a new set of fingering. i currently own a mid size CC tuba now.

[Rick Denney]

Pilafian plays a 621 F tuba in the Boston Brass, and sounds great.

One of the 'Arnold Jacobs series' of videos on youtube is with Pilafian. He talks about forming Empire Brass and how their approach was different than Boston Brass. He says Empire approached quintet playing from a very orchestral style, and he then preferred a CC tuba (this one apparently at Baltimore Brass: http://www.baltimorebrass.net/picture.p ... ts&id=2385).
He thinks Boston Brass is more jazz/latin/commerical and therefore appreciates a 'sports-car' F tuba.

Our band performed with the Boston Brass in June, and with the Canadian Brass the previous June. To me, Sam said that it's just a lot easier to carry by the time you get it into a flight case. We are all getting older, heh. But he leaves the flight case at the hotel and carries the tuba in a felt bag. Chuck's 621 C tuba was in the regular plastic Yamaha case, and that was cracked and broken in many places. The bell had a gigantic crease down its length, and I told Chuck that even though they weren't sponsored by Yamaha any longer that I bet they would fix that up for him. He looked at me with that famous absolute dead-pan, and said, "It came from that factory that way. It's on purpose."

After listening to Sam play that 621 F tuba, I got my 621 out and spent some time with it. Well, it was worth a try.

The Boston Brass indeed has a wider range of styles than did the Empire Brass, but they still play LOUD. I have always thought the 621 had a ceiling above which it just wouldn't go, but that ceiling is certainly higher for Sam than for me.

For me, the question is: Will all the finger gymnastics resulting from range that is low on the F result in more obvious mistakes than the missed partials or fuzzy sound resulting from range that is high for the Bb? That is not a question Sam had to ask, of course. But I do.

Rick "self-aware" Denney

[Rick Denney]

i ask my self the same question? to learn a new set of fingering. i currently own a mid size CC tuba now.

One thing I have learned: Professional musicians don't worry much about learning new fingerings, if doing so brings them something they didn't have before. I see guys in the military bands playing C tubas in concert bands, F tubas in recitals, Eb tubas in jazz bands, and Bb sousaphones on cemetery duty.

Or, if that isn't persuasive, try this: If I can learn F tuba fingerings in a year of hobbyist farting around, you can learn them in a month of serious effort.

Rick "for whom a bass tuba and a contrabass tuba opens a full range of possibilities" Denney

[patricklugo]

true, what i meant is that with my set up i can cover 90% of the basis. i am not pursing a music career. i am just practicing to get better and join a community band.

[gregsundt]

true, what i meant is that with my set up i can cover 90% of the basis. i am not pursing a music career. i am just practicing to get better and join a community band.

In your situation, there probably is no need to change, or add, anything.

[JCalkin]

I use F tuba for 90% of solo repertoire. Most of it lies pretty high, and while my range is essentially the same on all tubas, it's just a bit easier on bass tuba. I also feel that F tuba tends to be a bit more flexible in my experience, and I can "turn a phrase" on F with a bit less work (and a bit less air, but my CC is kind of an air hog). Also (and perhaps most importantly) the brighter timbre of F tubas seems to get out in front of the piano easier. I use the big CC on pieces where the thicker, darker timbre would be appropriate to the piece.

For quintet I use the F most of the time also, but again it depends largely on timbre. If we're playing repertoire in which the five of us are roughly equal, I use the F because I can blend a bit more easily with the horn and trombone. On pieces where it's the other four players in one role and me in another (i.e, jazz transcriptions where I am the rhythm section) then I play CC.

If I did have a small CC, I suspect it would get quite a bit of use in quintet, but not too much on solo repertoire.

[tclements]

In brass quintet, the choice of instrument needs to be dictated by repertoire being played, and always consider the composer's intent. Typically, I carry 2 horns, a 4/4 CC and a medium sized F. In rare cases, I'll bring along a bass trombone, but my trombone playing is somewhat suspect, so I'll confer with the members of the group first.

The VENUE is also a consideration. Outside, one needs more projection, so the CC may be preferable. Inside (especially if there are singers involved), and F might be the right choice.

Bottom line, for chamber music, I do not think there is an absolute choice, but changes based upon a number of factors.

For solos, it totally depends on WHAT SOUND GOOD, taking into account the composer's intent (there's THAT again!).

Most of all - HAVE FUN!!!!