US School bands going British?

[boles4u]

Sorry if this is long winded. Skip the first 2 paragraphs to get to the meat of the discussion.

Tonight I was at high school football game between two medium-small East Tennessee schools. Even though I have not really played tuba since high school, band is still near and dear to my heart. At halftime, 2 bands took the field, and I was somewhat disappointed. While there were many talented students on the field and much hard work had gone into preparing the shows, the size and instrumentation of the bands was somewhat lacking. The bands probably had 50-75 players each. One of the bands was only able to field 1 saxophone and 1 euphonium/baritone.

This seems to follow the trends for most social activities aside from Pokemon Go and Facebook. I am a math teacher, and the coaches and fine arts teachers that I work with often complain about how they can’t get talented students to come out. Good athletes will often quit sports to “focus on their grades” only to find out a year later that these students are still academic under-achievers, and they spend their free time playing video games. The same is true for music programs. My once proud Alma Mater boasted a near 300 piece marching at its peak 20 years ago. From what I have heard, we now put far less than 100 and probably closer to 50 musicians on the field each fall Friday night.

Start reading here if you don’t want to read my long winded opining of the “good ol’ days.”

After seeing these two bands I thought of a possible way to boost the quality and community support for small and mediums size schools in communities that do not have a great tradition of supporting the arts. Here is the question I propose:
Would it be viable for high schools in the U.S. to have British style brass bands during concert season and to field drum corps style marching bands? (Of course the British style instrumentation could carry over to marching band with a few modifications that mostly involve getting the bells of the instruments to point towards the stands.)

Pros (in my far less than expert opinion):

-Volume!-Brass instruments are louder and more likely to get the attention of a half interested former jock reliving his glory days on Friday night.
-Instrumentation-There would be fewer potential instruments so the lone sax player wouldn’t get lost in a sea of mellophones. Also, bands could own and maintain a fleet of matching instruments with similar pitch and tonal tendencies. Furthermore, if this was done in the true British style players would know the fingerings and basic mechanics for nearly all instruments, except for the trombone and percussion. This would allow for much smoother transitions should students need to switch instruments.
-Quality of instruction-Band directors would focus on teaching sound brass technique and mechanics to the group. Music educators would not have to worry about woodwinds of various reed configurations.
-Cost?-It might be cheaper to maintain a fleet of brass instruments that are all put to good use. A band could partner with a local instrument retailer to rent decent playing instruments of tank like durability. Most high school band rooms I have seen contain at least a few seldom used and obscure woodwind instruments such as a contrabassoon or English horn alongside an abused flugelhorn and tuba or 2 that nobody wants to play.
Improved performance quality and sonic effect would hopefully increase the interest of the common football spectator. This would hopefully increase community support for bands.

Cons:
Violation of tradition-Some might scoff at the lack of piccolos and saxophones on the field.
Cost?-Perhaps the cost of maintaining a fleet of brass instruments would be more expensive.
Loss of instruments-If schools were to follow this model woodwind instruments could become more obscure. (However, I am proposing this only for certain schools. Larger schools or schools in communities that draw more students into the arts could very well stick with the status quo.)
Decreased sonic variety-Bands would be operating with a decreased pallet of timbres.

So, what do you think? Is this a viable way to save or improve some high school bands? Is there enough literature so support such an endeavor? Is anybody doing this and what have the results been? What else is there to consider?

[fenne1ca]

My primary reaction is to wonder what one would do about all the non-brass-playing music educators out there? Many schools (the majoroty, I'd venture) have but a single band director, and that person is not necessarily fluent in brass performance or instruction.

[Donn]

That's easy, in those schools, the band would be all woodwind! Contests between these two genres would be the only good thing about this generally terrible idea.

[Three Valves]

My once proud Alma Mater boasted a near 300 piece marching at its peak 20 years ago. From what I have heard, we now put far less than 100 and probably closer to 50 musicians on the field each fall Friday night.

300 is nuts!!

120 is perfect for a marching column of 6X20 or 8X15.

I bet the Physics and Chess clubs are even worse off, eh??

[ken k]

Students have a lot more options nowadays. The schools admin support in "some" communities have lessened as our hyper school testing climate increases. You can hear the smaller bands great if everyone in the stands pays attention and stops chatting. The solution is not to overblow the crowd and stop fielding woodwinds. I think the solution is for the crowd to listen.

when I was in school we had football, cheerleading, field hockey, cross country, golf, girls tennis in the fall. Now they also have fall baseball, girls soccer, boys soccer, girls volleyball, lacrosse, and water polo. Also the pull to athletics is so much stronger today than when I was younger. I think many parents look at it as a possible college scholarship opportunity? Also the young age sports practice so much more now. I have elementary kids in school who play pop warner football and they practice 4 nights a week! When I was in little league baseball we had practice once or twice a week and a game once a week. It was more for fun.
Also many schools have gone to a voluntary marching band. So in school they have a fairly large concert band class, but the marching band is small because many kids don't want to wear the stupid uniform or they want to hang out with friends at football games, they have to work, or the directors and the coaches do not allow kids to be in sports and band, etc...the list of excuses is endless. At my school we do not compete, we rehearse once a week and have friday night football games and a two parades in the fall. We try to make it fun, yet provide a quality program that the kids can be proud of. We hover around 100 kids, including the band front which is around 20 (80 musicians). We re one of the larger marching bands in the county (and if I must say so myself, one of the better ones).

I would hate to lose the woodwinds in band. Some kids just do not want to play a brass instrument. so you would lose some kids.

kk

[TheGoyWonder]

The woodwind-brass blend plus marching drums is such a classic sound, but almost never are the acoustics and balance right for it to work in marching band. In school bands there were always 20% of the woodwind players taking up a brass instrument anyways, might as well put them all to use. Fat ones get tubas, skinny ones get mellophones, rest get baritones.

Instead of making US bands British, I'd like to see British band americanized, like drum corps lite. It could have higher utilization of percussion, and instrumentation tweaks like french horn & trumpet.

[boles4u]

Thanks for all the replys! Here are a few thoughts.

My primary reaction is to wonder what one would do about all the non-brass-playing music educators out there? Many schools (the majoroty, I'd venture) have but a single band director, and that person is not necessarily fluent in brass performance or instruction.

To me this would help bands with a single band director. A person can become fluent in teaching brass even if their primary instrument is not brass. It would simplify instruction.

You can hear the smaller bands great if everyone in the stands pays attention and stops chatting. The solution is not to overblow the crowd and stop fielding woodwinds. I think the solution is for the crowd to listen.

People should be more respectful and listen to the bands...but this doesn't always happen. We've all heard a big, good band take the field and peel the paint of off the pressbox with a nice fat, musical, and loud sound. That gets people's attention. The idea isn't to come out with sheer volume. Bands should also strive for great musicality. Perhaps this instrumentation would give smaller bands a little more umph! (Not to be confused with oompah! )

300 is nuts!!

120 is perfect for a marching column of 6X20 or 8X15.

I bet the Physics and Chess clubs are even worse off, eh??

And this was in a school of about 900! Then, alas, our legendary band director of over 30 years retired after my freshman year, and the band has been in decline ever since. Something similar happened just a few years ago to one of the local schools where I live now. It is really sad that one person can retire and nobody can fill his shoes. And yeah, pretty much all extracurriculars are on the decline.

I too hate to lose woodwinds and that classic sound. Ideally the classic American marching band would live on in larger school, universities, and in communities that support the arts. Does anyone see this as a viable option for smaller schools? ? I know they don't march at halftime like we do here across the pond, but how does the system work in British schools? Are high school bands as widespread as over here?

[GC]

And 300 is perfect for a marching column of 10 X 30. Really, numbers like that are meaningless.

[Three Valves]

And 300 is perfect for a marching column of 10 X 30. Really, numbers like that are meaningless.

Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

[Biggs]

And 300 is perfect for a marching column of 10 X 30. Really, numbers like that are meaningless.

Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

Do you really think marching bands of 250+ people (as all significant college marching bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

[boles4u]

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Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

That's easily fixed

[Three Valves]

And 300 is perfect for a marching column of 10 X 30. Really, numbers like that are meaningless.

Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

Do you really think marching bands of 250+ people (as all significant college marching bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

Forgive me, I thought we were discussing small High School bands...

[GC]

And 300 is perfect for a marching column of 10 X 30. Really, numbers like that are meaningless.

Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

Look at some of the monster bands in the Rose Parade that still hold together just fine. Drums in the middle, both ends listen to them.

[Biggs]

Not meaningless if the back can't hear the front!!

Do you really think marching bands of 250+ people (as all significant college marching bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

Forgive me, I thought we were discussing small High School bands...

Fine, see amended below:

Do you really think marching bands of 25+ people (as all small high school bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

[Three Valves]

Fine, see amended below:

Do you really think marching bands of 25+ people (as all small high school bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

I never asserted they did, would or could.

However, I do assert that 300+ is nuts!!

100 or so is fine.

If it ever got down to 25 or less, I'd rather have a pep band in the stands like we used to for basketball games.

[Biggs]

Fine, see amended below:

Do you really think marching bands of 25+ people (as all small high school bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

I never asserted they did, would or could.

However, I do assert that 300+ is nuts!!

100 or so is fine.

If it ever got down to 25 or less, I'd rather have a pep band in the stands like we used to for basketball games.

You asserted that it is important for players in marching bands to hear one another. It is not, regardless of the size of the band.

[Three Valves]

Fine, see amended below:

Do you really think marching bands of 25+ people (as all small high school bands are) function like a brass quintet? It's all visual. That's why there are multiple conductors on both sidelines. It's also why there are shakos, baton twirlers, and on-field spelling.

I never asserted they did, would or could.

However, I do assert that 300+ is nuts!!

100 or so is fine.

If it ever got down to 25 or less, I'd rather have a pep band in the stands like we used to for basketball games.

You asserted that it is important for players in marching bands to hear one another. It is not, regardless of the size of the band.

Unless it's a quintet!!

[Three Valves]

Look at some of the monster bands in the Rose Parade that still hold together just fine. Drums in the middle, both ends listen to them.

That makes sense...

[Biggs]

Unless it's a quintet!!

Not one that spreads out like a marching band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9F32k_AQlc

I'm glad your mom found deliberate obtuseness to be cute, but I do wish she hadn't encouraged it so thoroughly.

[Three Valves]

Unless it's a quintet!!

Not one that spreads out like a marching band.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9F32k_AQlc

I'm glad your mom found deliberate obtuseness to be cute, but I do wish she hadn't encouraged it so thoroughly.

Sheesh!!

Lighten up, Francis!!