The problem with a quality instrument...

[Michael Bush]

The key to happiness when owning a tuba is to not know what you're missing.

As you know I own a very expensive handmade Neptune

Yep. As we've already discussed, I owned a handmade Nirschl. So I know what I'm missing. And I'm happy. The tuba I'm happy with is clearly not "schlock". It's just not the best tuba I've owned or that's available at a price I might pay. Nor is it the second best (edit: I would take that one back without a second thought, but its current owner loves it. Smart guy). Fourth, I would say, of those I've owned, ranking the 2145 lower. Quite content for now, at least.

[Michael Bush]

Mrs. bloke and crackerjack tubas...

I win.

[roweenie]

However, I don't see why it would be in their best interest to improve quality to the level of the European manufacturers, since they are filling a niche that no other manufacturer wants to (or more correctly, is able to) fill.

Wants to, is able to, both. They're no-name manufacturers. A name manufacturer strives to avoid that niche.

Donn, I'm not sure you got my point (I probably wasn't clear enough )

My point was that non-Chinese manufacturers (ie. companies that are required to pay their employees more than $3 per hour) simply cannot compete with the Chinese in that price market, whether they want to, or not.

The Detroit business model (which was also followed by companies like C.G. Conn, Holton, F.E. Olds, J.W. York, among others) for many years, was to have marques in several different price markets; is this no longer a viable model, or is is that it just doesn't apply to musical instruments anymore?

With this in mind, I'd like to amend my previous statement; once the Chinese manufacturers become wealthy enough, through exploitation of labor and the cornering of a particular market, there is absolutely no reason to think that they won't eventually set their sights on expanding into higher-echelon markets (this method worked quite well for Henry Ford, too).

(And please don't present the argument that the Chinese aren't the first people to exploit labor, because, as any student of history knows, this is clearly not the case. This phenomenon is indicative of all societies that have human nature as a component, Distributism excepted).

http://distributistreview.com/g-k-chest ... tributism/" target="_blank

[Donn]

My point was that non-Chinese manufacturers (ie. companies that are required to pay their employees more than $3 per hour) simply cannot compete with the Chinese in that price market, whether they want to, or not.

Of course, that's the "not able to" part. What I'm saying is that they also don't want to - because their name is attached to the stuff, and that colors perception of their whole line. Tubas of Chinese manufacture don't ordinarily show up with the manufacturer's name engraved on them, so it's a non-issue.

With this in mind, I'd like to amend my previous statement; once the Chinese manufacturers become wealthy enough, through exploitation of labor and the cornering of a particular market, there is absolutely no reason to think that they won't eventually set their sights on expanding into higher-echelon markets (this method worked quite well for Henry Ford, too).

... where identity does become an issue. We've already, for years, seen claims that this or that Chinese tuba is totally excellent and at least the equal of the European original, but one example doesn't create a higher-echelon tuba. In that range, buyers want a history of quality, not just an instance. No name, no history.

[andrew the tuba player]

While I definitely agree with the with quality being important, I also have to say that those with sub quality instruments shouldn't think that they cannot achieve what those with quality instruments can. It may take some more work but you can still do it (within reason of course)
I have been blessed with quality instruments from the start with a Miraphone 186-5uc, Kalison Daryl Smith, a fine example of a 25j and now my 52j . The 52j has been the envy of players from highschool to college professors for both aesthetics and playability. But on to the point. When I was competing with it in highschool most did not have this blessing. Most of my competitors were playing beat school horns. In fact my top competitor beat me out of the top all state band with electrical tape holding the linkages of his tired old YBB-641 together and had to pull the valves back up sometimes because the linkages were shot.
I am not knocking quality at all and I am very thankful for the craftsmanship I have been able to be witness to throughout my years. My words are to those who may not be able to afford the best or even intermediate level horns out there. Don't count yourself out just because the horn isn't a picture of what a tuba should be.

Once again this is all within reason. If the instrument can not be tuned or has inherent mechanical flaws then obviously it's not going to work out.

[pgym]

My point was that non-Chinese manufacturers (ie. companies that are required to pay their employees more than $3 per hour) simply cannot compete with the Chinese in that price market, whether they want to, or not.

Of course, that's the "not able to" part. What I'm saying is that they also don't want to - because their name is attached to the stuff, and that colors perception of their whole line.

I guess that explains why Buffet-Crampon closed their Indian factory and stopped selling Besson-branded student instruments.

Oh, wait ... they haven't.

[tclements]

Friends,

I know tubas have gotten GHASTLY expensive. I remember when the first Yorkbrunners were $10k, when Mirafones were $3,500. And I'd say, "Who's gonna pay 10 grand for a tuba?" But Floyd Cooley told me, "You should buy the most expensive tuba you can afford." While I scoffed at that at the time, I have come to believe this is a truism. It is MY experience (from people bringing such "entry level" instruments into my studio) is that you "get when you pay for." I know there are a whole new generation of affordable tubas. Honestly, I have not played ANY of them so I am completely unqualified to comment on them. There are some GREAT players playing these instruments, so this new influx of instruments must be of a higher quality than in the old days. But I stand by my original assertion than one should buy the most instrument one can afford. PLEASE feel free to comment and disagree.

[Donn]

I think shopping for a high end string bass would make a tuba player feel better about ghastly expensive prices. Don't forget to buy a bow!

[bisontuba]

I've heard a rumor (from a reliable source, but not announced nor confirmed by the particulars - so I'm neither posting nor answering pm's about it) regarding a very interesting acquisition of another eastern manufacturing company...' could have some interesting consequences re: western-based production.



00:20 - 00:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaitZx3njw

Looks a lot like the Wisemann building....

http://www.wisemann.com.cn/english/w%20intro.asp" target="_blank

[Chriss2760]

The pain of tuba envy. It cuts like a knife. A dull, rusty, tarnished, poorly polished, badly finished with a loose handle knife...

There is also a negative side.