What is this - F or Eb ??

[marccromme]

http://www.dba.dk/tuba-f-horn-drejevent ... 027700346/

Text says F-horn, but wrap looks like Eb ?? Or not? Anybody knows ?

[arpthark]

Looks like Eb to me. Long F-ish body but the horizontal tuning slide and longer slide lengths point to Eb.

[imperialbari]

The engraved logo tells this tuba being of the St. Petersburg brand. It looks like the St. P Eb tubas represented in my gallery, even if the logo is more elaborately engraved.

This tuba is for sale from the area of a band, where I subbed as 1st trombone during the summer of 1989, but at least back then they were all-Yamaha in the band owned brasses. They simply had bought the full stock of band related wind instruments from the previous Yamaha-importer, when Yamaha themselves took over the Scandinavian wholesale distribution.

Klaus

[marccromme]

I asked the seller, he tells it's an F-tuba, but he can't play. He also added a picture measuring the bell at 40 cm diameter. I agree it looks much like an Eb tuba, but I woun't know for sure before I drive to the other end of the country. Fortunately Seeland is a small island, 1:30 hours drive.

I was thinking of buying it for street music and marching stuff, as I can't find a cheap helicon in Eb around here. How do these St. Petersburg Eb tubas play?

[marccromme]

I can see similarities in the wrap of the old one compared to the new St. Petersburg Eb tuba model 206:
http://stpetemusic.ru/index.php/en/tuba ... 06-eb.html" target="_blank
http://www.stpetetuba.com/images/flyers/206flyer.PDF" target="_blank

The new model is 5-valved and sells for 3500,- USD. The old one is only 3-valved. How hard is it to obtain a fourth valve kit for such an tuba ??

[Donn]

It's far from foolproof, but if it would be amusing for the two of you, he could measure the length of the "bugle" tubing. From the picture with ... assuming that's a 1 meter stick ... it looks to me like it would be just long enough (3.65m) to be F.

[tubasaz]

It is a Russian tuba. Heard only tubas with pitches BBb and Eb. Never heard or seen such a F tuba. At least BBb sounds surprisingly nice (good !) and I have used such on gigs. Valves and their tolerancies varies really much (hugely) and may be really bad to use - also quality of tuba units vary. In 80´s you could buy such a Soviet Union tuba really cheaply. Shank size is normally small in both BBb and Eb. If the tuba beeing sell sounds and feels good then it might be even value of 4800 DKK especially if you like tuba history. Negotiable to a half price ?

[menroth]

I've had one of those (it's most likely an Eb) as my first tuba, this one looks a bit better in shape though. I agree with the feedback above. Sound and tuning were ok on mine, valves allright after some effort - noisy but fast and didn't stick. I had a small shank Denis Wick 4 sanded down to fit the reciever.

Personally I would hesitate to pay more than about 300 € / 2200 DKK for these without a proper case and a modern mouthpiece. A good enough off-road tuba for sure, in my opinion. As the fellow Finn above says, these are quite common and cheap here and can be found now and then on flea markets and instrument auctions etc.

[marccromme]

Thanks for the Finnish comments - Yes, I was also considering bidding half price, given the fact it's only a 3-valve tuba of Russian origin. From the pictures it looks nice, but I need to test-play it to see how valves, slides and intonation work out. I have a small shank DW 5, that must do for test-riding the beast. I think it'll do nicely for street music gigs, which we play quite often with our brass band, and there the lesser weight will be an advantage, and some missing deep Ab, G, ... woun't hurt. I don't think the seller will have luck selling it fast, as the DK market for Eb-bass is entirely driven by brass band players wanting solely huge Besson and Yamaha 3+1 compensated 19" horns. I am one of the very few owners of a 5 valve rotary Eb tuba in Denmark. Thanks for your help!

[imperialbari]

If weight is an issue in street parades, I am not so sure a 3 valve Eb tuba is the solution.

Imagine playing a march like K. J. Alford’s Colonel Bogey. You can set your 3rd slide to give an in-tune concert F, which is very important in the second, bass, strain. But how will the root of the Trio key, Gb, then sound?

Assuming that reading bass clef, or really transposing down a fifth, is no problem, you already have a much better solution among your instruments, the 3+1P compensating euphonium. You won’t contribute as much sound, but your bad pitches won’t stick out against the other tubas.

Klaus

[marccromme]

Hi Klaus, interesting thought, and yes, I can read and play Eb parts on an euph, no problem. But I was thinking of finding a suitable 4th valve including tubing, which I can install myself. That is, if the horn has suitable sound and good partials. Good thoughts, though!

[Søren]

Hi Marc. These tubas were sold i large numbers almost 10 years ago on the german ebay and I have encountered a number of them in Denmark, all BBb or Eb horns (never saw an F version). I have played both BBb and Eb versions. They are very thin metal and fairly cheaply made. That being said, the ones I tried played MUCH better than expected with an almost instant response due to the lightness. If I needed an extra light and cheap practice tuba, a good example of these would be perfect.

At the same time, a number of BBb helicons were also sold of the same origin. I would be VERY interested to try one of those.....

[marccromme]

Hi Søren, good to know, sounds like this is my street parade horn. Unless I am able to find a used Helicon in Eb, for example a Cerveny. I am currently investigating where to source an additional 4th valve for the Russian tuba, I have found Jürgen Voight in Germany in Marktneukirchen selling these new, but I'd probably prefer a used one plus quart-tubing (Eb to Bb) from a scrap tuba.

[marccromme]

Add-on question - where is the best place to install a trigger on a 3 valve Eb horn to get Gb, F and E best and easiest in tune ? Would that be a trigger on the 1st valve slide? Or on the 3rd valve slide? On both? Or on the main slide as some euphoniums have?

[marccromme]

So, today I was driving almost 3 hours to see the tuba, and yes, it was in Eb, and it was russian. Very lightweight, very old too. Valves where totally worn down, ratteling in their cases, and jerking around. The receiver was very,very small in diameter - not even my bass bone mouthpiece could enter. There was one mouthpiece with the instrument, with a shank of the size as a small bore trombone.

I could see that it would have been a fine street parade tube if the rotors wheren't so bad, and the receiver so small. But the proce was not negociatable to an reasonable amount given the fact the valves needed replacement, so I did not buy.

Thanks for the help and background info on the instrument!

[imperialbari]

I don’t follow the German eBay auctions any longer, but if they are as they were a few years back, the occasional Weltklang Eb tuba will pop up in between. They were the pre-wall-fall second line from B&S. Same acoustical design as B&S, but with fewer valves, less nickel silver tubing, and most often with clockspring transmission. A very few samples even may be engraved B&S.

At least some of the 3 valve versions had the 3rd valve slide sitting upwards along the vertical branch opposite the bell. By means of a brass ring or a fabric loop inside the slide crook you could adjust the tuning of the problem notes on the fly by means of your left thumb. That might take that you secure the tuba well by means of a three-hooked harness system like the one used by the former F-tubist of the lifeguard band, Arne Svendsen. I think he is still alive and could tell you the design.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

One sample (no endorsement from my side):

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Sehr-schones-alt ... Swa~BYQ2SQ

[marccromme]

Hi, yes, I have seen some Weltklang F tubas, which are reasonable. Never seen an Eb, though. Thanks for the link to the helicon, but I find it difficult to buy old instruments unseen. They might be totally worn out as the Russian tuba I had just inspected. But it might end damn cheap ...