WWBW credit card

[Alex F]

For anyone that has purchased using the WWBW (Wells Fargo) card and 12 month same as cash . . .

Are there any experiences you can share? Advantages? Pitfalls? I was approved for a card but have not had the chance to read and absorb the entire 10 page agreement yet. However, it looks like a possible pitfall is that, if you don't pay the whole balance off within the 12 month period, you get charged the outstanding balance plus all the bac interest. At 22.65%, that's lots of shekels.

If you would rather not put it out for all to see, feel free to PM me.

Thanks

[Rick F]

There are always strings attached... or pitfalls to those, "12 months - same as cash deals". I wouldn't use one of those either.

[ThomasDodd]

Most 12 months, same as cash offeres are like that. If you don't pay it all in 12 months, the you are charged the back interest for the first 12 months.

If the current rate is 22.6% and you think something might prevent you from paying it off in that time, don't do it. You should be able to get a beter rate easily if you are in a position to pay for a tuba in 12 months.

You could probaly get a normal Visa with 12-15% and a line that big. If you cannot get a large enough limit with them, you probably cannot afford the tuba in reality. Those places tend to extend more credit than one can really afford.

You could save 1/12 the cost per month untill savings + credit limit is enough, just don't use the card for anything. Or just save for 12 months and see how close you are. If you can save 1/12 per month for the next year, you be damned close to having enough. Probly less than one more month of saving. The price won't change that much (an 8.3% increase in the price over a year would be unusual) and should have more than 90% of the price saved. (If the price went up 8.3%, you would need one more month of saving, and has 92.6% of the new price).

You could probably lock in the price with less for a down payment. Or find a dealer with in-house financing. Again a large down payment will go a long way. You might be able to take possesion sooner, if you work with a good dealer. Maybe 7-9 months instead of 12.

[Alex F]

Schlep: Thanks.

I thought I remember someone from TubeNet posting about this before. It was you! I did read the agreement completely and found the section recarding "Accumulated Finance Charge" which states, in essence, that if you don't pay the purchase off within the "special period," you're on the hook for the full back interest, even if you have made your timely minimum payments. Actually, I remember buying a matress a few years ago this way, but it was not a problem because it got paid off in 90 days. I think you just have to be VERY CAREFUL to make your payments on time and make sure you get the thing paid off in the 12 month period. The big problem is that many folks don't realize these financing "options" until its too late.

I do have other financing options available - it would just be nice to spread it out for a year and if there is no cost, why not?

[Normal]

I've bought a number of things with the 90 days, 6 months, 1 year same as cash. It all boils down to discipline and understanding the terms.

The first time I learned the hard way that six months meant six months from the date of the purchase not six monthly payments. This was compounded by a second purchase three months later on the same card. The bank messed up on tracking the two purchases and merged them together with the start date being the date of the first purchase. It took a couple of months, but got straightened out.

I've used Wells Fargo a couple of times since then and had no problems. Paid everything off on time. The only drawback is that I get a phone call once a month, early Saturday morning, asking me to use W.F. for an equity loan. So I start my day saying NO!!!

Good luck if you go through with this. As long as you qualify and watch your calendar everything can go ok.

[Tabor]

Wells Fargo

Our local Wells Fargo charges a check cashing fee (to members even) on all government checks. It happens to be on a reservation and the fee is crazy-stupid high (like $25.00 per check or 10%, whichever is more)....but I have another REAL beef with Wells Fargo.

I am paid by my school electronically. It goes in my account electronically at midnight on a specified day, every time without fail. The school banks with them. One day, after writing a series of checks to pay debts which charge interest and fees, they decided that they were going to "hold my electronic check to see if it would clear" and they held the thing for two weeks before even notifying me that they were messing around with my account (although when I checked my balance, it said that it was already there...and then my ATM card stopped working)

In the meantime, they bounced every single check that came through and charged me for writing checks on an empty account. The places I was writing checks to also charged me fees and I ended up with about $3000.00 worth of fees and charges before I even knew that they were "holding my electronic check that comes in every two weeks at the same time from the same place, AND THE CHECKS ARE WELLS FARGO CHECKS BECAUSE THE SCHOOL BANKS WITH WELLS FARGO" to see if it cleared.

They held an electronic check from THEMSELVES...
didn't notify me for TWO weeks of any problem, and by checking my balance with the ATM, it looked legit....
They then shut off my ATM card so it wouldn't work...
while giving themselves fees ...
and bouncing checks to credit cards, which then charged fees...
which were set up to be paid electonically through the bank..
and you can see the problem. Also, the bank here closes the very minute that school is out, so there is no way to talk to a person unless you happen to be one of the first in line on Saturday morning and they happen to decide to open the doors. It took about 5 hours of telephone calls, several letters and much waiting in line to have them resolve the problem. The credit card companies took the fees off after getting telephone calls and apology letters from the bank, but as soon as things were straightened out, I withdrew everything I had in there and went somewhere else. Now, I bank through a bank in New York. Although I live in South Dakota, it is much better.

[funkcicle]

I'm always amazed how a country so advanced in so many respects can be so far behind when it comes to the banking infrastructure. Canada and Finland have amazing banking systems, as I imagine does most of Europe, and have read that much of south America has an impressive banking system as well. Switzerland, of course, needs no mention. I have less trouble managing my funds in 3 different countries than I do dealing with my local bank.. until 2000 or so(when america finally caught on to universal debit cards, 10-20 years after everybody else) it wasn't even worth it for me to hold a U.S. bank account.

I have my own ideas, but I'm curious what others might think are the reasons for the sorry state of america's banking system?

[Shockwave]

If you have to pay off the balance within a year or get hit with an enormous 23% interest rate, it seems to make more sense to save money for a year rather than borrow.

-Eric

[Matt G]

I've gone to all of the trouble to apply for some "Lowe's" (etc.) line of credit to get a year (or whatever) interest free/payment free on a "major purchase" (whatev'), and then when the statement comes the next month my wife inevitably (without consulting me) pays these purchases off in full.

You need to buy a fancy business calculator with the TVM button.

While I don't do this ofeten, I did purchase my last mattress on a 12-months-same-as-cash program. I will probably pay it off in the 11th month.

If everyone did this, those companies would go insolvent. They lose about 1.5-2% if everyone pays this off in time. That is why i pick those plans. My $XXXX should be worth 2-3% more at least over that period of time if I can keep it and invest it.

Here is the formula anyhow:

[Shockwave]

My $XXXX should be worth 2-3% more at least over that period of time if I can keep it and invest it.

So you save your $5000 to buy a tuba, and instead of spending it you borrow someone else's money to pay for the tuba. In the meantime, you invest your $5000 and it earns 2% becoming $5100. I don't know about you, but when I owe money to an institution that profits from the misfortune and forgetfulness of its customers, it leaves me with a little bit of constant stress that I would gladly pay $100 to get rid of.

-Eric

[Joe Baker]

I see where you're coming from, but when I've used these things it's more like this: I feel confident that I've got enough income to pay the thing off in 12 equal payments. Alternatively, I've got money already working for me -- probably at a lot better than 2-3% -- that I COULD take to buy the merchandise, but I'd rather leave it be. Or maybe I have an asset that I COULD use for collateral for a LOW cost loan if I had to, but NO cost sounds better. So I take out the 12 mo no interest, wait by the mailbox for the first bill, then IMMEDIATELY go set up ALL the payments in my online banking bill-pay service. I don't even have to remember to do anything, the bank remembers for me. Then if something unexpected SHOULD happen six months later, and I DO have to use other assets to pay it off, I've at least gotten six more months' use out of them. And that's IF. I don't recall ever having had to do that.

The tricky thing is keeping track if you have a credit card like my best-buy, which has a camera from last August and also some Christmas purchases all on it. There are some fairly complicated rules about how payments are credited to each balance, so my plan is to just pay all of it off in August, just to be safe.
_________________________
Joe Baker, who observes that in some cases what you're REALLY getting is a time machine, rather than a return on an investment!

[cjk]

It doesn't matter what the interest rate of any credit card is if you pay the silly thing off every month.

I don't need a new tuba if I have to go into debt to get it, especially debt that is so deviously engineered. I would rather wait until I have the money in hand.

Debt is useful for some things (like a house, emergency medical payments, stuff that REALLY matters). Perhaps to a major pro, a tuba might join that list.

20+% interest ?? My Visa through my credit union is 12% (still high IMHO).

EDIT:
I just went back and looked and it's actually 9.9%

I sure do like my Credit Union!


Christian

[Doug@GT]

...but as soon as things were straightened out, I withdrew everything I had in there and went somewhere else...

Good for you! That's quite an ordeal...

Is there any regulatory agencies (both state and federal levels) that you can report this to?

The regulatory agencies won't touch it if the private parties work out a solution on their own. That's the way it should be. But that doesn't stop Tabor from telling everyone he knows that this kind of thing is going on--as well he should.

Doug "who just read several reports today where the business wouldn't work it out"

[MaryAnn]

I like my credit union too, although they were too slow on the uptake to get my mortgage business. I also don't buy stuff I can't afford, with the exception of my house, which I paid off way, way early while not buying all the stuff people usually get like furniture. The old ratty furniture is comfortable, anyway. And the old truck runs really well after I just got it tuned up.
The new tuba may or may not happen in a few months, after I get over the $$ mark I need to buy it, and also after a play-testing trip to somewhere.
How many of you have enough money in the bank to live on for a while if you lose your job?

MA

[funkcicle]

How many of you have enough money in the bank to live on for a while if you lose your job?

MA

My parents taught me that if nothing else, always have a nice financial cushion that could get me through a rough patch.. I generally have enough in the bank that i could live comfortably(with some sacrifices) for about a 6 month period without any other sourced of income..if i needed to. Chances are I'll never have to face that possibility, but it's a nice bit of security to have at my young age. It's also nice to be able to pay cash on major purchases when they come around.. rather than jumping the gun and paying for it threefold.

funk"hasn't incurred any new debt since 2001"cicle

[Chuck(G)]

If you must borrow money (there are emergencies and necessities in life), don't do it with a credit card. If you read the fine print, the issuer can pretty much do whatever it wants, including jumping your interest rate above the advertised.

Much better to talk to you local bank, credit union, or corner loanshark. At least you'll know what the vig is.