RESOLVED: Pittsburgh Symphony strike

[Three Valves]

I suspect the thing going on with Pittsburgh is this:

They hired a hatchet man.

The Chick??

Or the Dude that is married to a member of the union??

[bisontuba]

I suspect the thing going on with Pittsburgh is this:

They hired a hatchet man.

The Chick??

Or the Dude that is married to a member of the union??

Hatchet Man = 'Bean Counter'.....

[TheGoyWonder]

Scab for life baby! I'm sure they'll have no problem replacing the union scum. Even if they lose some talent I'm sure they'll sound better by rehearsing beyond the pathetic union limits.

[roweenie]

Scab for life baby! I'm sure they'll have no problem replacing the union scum. Even if they lose some talent I'm sure they'll sound better by rehearsing beyond the pathetic union limits.

One (1) symphony orchestra musician = +/- 10 equally qualified musicians, willing to do it for less

One (1) American manufacturing job = +/- 10 equally qualified Chinese workers willing to do it for less

We villify one, yet accept the other.

Someone, please explain to me (and I'm being sincere here) whether or not there is truly any difference between these two scenarios.

[Three Valves]

Scab for life baby! I'm sure they'll have no problem replacing the union scum. Even if they lose some talent I'm sure they'll sound better by rehearsing beyond the pathetic union limits.

One (1) symphony orchestra musician = +/- 10 equally qualified musicians, willing to do it for less

One (1) American manufacturing job = +/- 10 equally qualified Chinese workers willing to do it for less

We villify one, yet accept the other.

Someone, please explain to me (and I'm being sincere here) whether or not there is truly any difference between these two scenarios.

If the Pittsburgh Symphony was moving to Beijing, you'd have a point!!

[tclements]

So the musicians were peacefully demonstrating by playing in front of Heinz (sp?) Hall, and the hall management shut them down and made them move away.

[John DiCesare]

Scab for life baby! I'm sure they'll have no problem replacing the union scum. Even if they lose some talent I'm sure they'll sound better by rehearsing beyond the pathetic union limits.

They were unable to find musicians for this evenings Il Divo concert at Heinz; you are absolutely wrong. Maybe send your resume and they'll consider you for next time.

[royjohn]

While I understand that it may be hard to get sympathy from John Q Public, one has to remember that the Pittsburg ranks, I would think, just below New York, LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly and a couple of others. Their members are among the thousand best musicians in the country. They are making a good salary, but they do have to practice and keep up and they don't make any more than senior engineers and scientists and medical people, and there are a hell of a lot of them below the top 1000 making more than the musicians. If the Pitt has the #8 tuba player in the whole country, shouldn't he/she be paid well? Compare his/her salary with the #8 surgeon or #8 engineer in the whole country...

I think what's happening now may have something to do with management wonks getting into managing the orchestras and trying to use techniques that are used in factories to squeeze out the last nickel (and none too successfully, I might add). As Picketty demonstrated, it isn't that the top 1% hasn't the income, as was the case right after the 2008 crash...they've recovered rather well.

[Mark]

If the Pitt has the #8 tuba player in the whole country, shouldn't he/she be paid well? Compare his/her salary with the #8 surgeon or #8 engineer in the whole country...

Trying to compare pay rates for different professions is nonsensical. Colin Kaepernick is not even the 8th best quarterback in the NFL; but he's getting nearly $20 million dollars a year. What does that have to do with how much a doctor, engineer or musician makes?

[royjohn]

Mark wrote:

Trying to compare pay rates for different professions is nonsensical. Colin Kaepernick is not even the 8th best quarterback in the NFL; but he's getting nearly $20 million dollars a year. What does that have to do with how much a doctor, engineer or musician makes?

Well, that's your OPINION that it is nonsensical, and I beg to differ. As a matter of economic justice, professions requiring an equal amount of training and work should provide, roughly, an equal compensation. The fact that this is nonsensical in our society only shows how far off we are in our priorities. The 1-per centers who run the symphony boards and hire the wonks who attempt to run an arts organization like a factory trying to compete with the slave labor in China are the ones trying to determine---wrongly----salaries for elite musicians. Quarterbacks are not a fair comparison, because the money they bring in has something to do with their inflated salaries. What is the take for one televised football game? So take out the owner's share and other expenses and then divide half the take by about 30 players and you get an idea of where the inflated salaries come from.

Let's discuss senior engineers who run power plants and make decisions about opening dam sluice gates and monitor the temperature of nuclear reactors. Or scientists who work on new drugs. There are hundreds of these guys. They produce a great economic benefit and they are in demand. They don't have any greater degree of education or smarts. My contention is that our top 100 musicians on each instrument are just as priceless and need to be paid something CLOSE to what the engineers, scientists and, God forbid, even our doctors are paid.

The fact that our arts professionals and our helpers (try getting 100K as a social worker who saves somebody from suicide!!) get the reduced wages they do is a symptom of our skewed values and the fact that you say my position is nonsensical is symptomatic of that.

[Three Valves]

Mark wrote:

Trying to compare pay rates for different professions is nonsensical. Colin Kaepernick is not even the 8th best quarterback in the NFL; but he's getting nearly $20 million dollars a year. What does that have to do with how much a doctor, engineer or musician makes?

Well, that's your OPINION that it is nonsensical, and I beg to differ. As a matter of economic justice, professions requiring an equal amount of training and work should provide, roughly, an equal compensation.

[Three Valves]

may force me seek my safe space.

Speaking of toxic masculinity!!

[Beervangelist]

Please do not use the phrases "economic justice" or "1-per centers" - particularly when not being sarcastic.

Those are trigger words for me. I find them to be offensive, and they may force me seek my safe space.

Does having trigger words help with intonation?

[Three Valves]

Violets are Blue, Roses are Red.

There may be justice;

But Harambe is still dead!!

[royjohn]

Well, so much for a serious discussion...

[royjohn]

bloke wrote:

There really are no updates beyond this (until a strike ends), and - if allowed to go to page 4-5-6, these "strike" threads, inevitably, become political ideology arguments between Marxists and libertarians...or between people who tend to wander more towards one of these two directions than the other...

Well, one could make that argument about any thread where people share ideas and opinions. You can call names and label opinions and ideas as "Marxist" or "libertarian," you can make fun of people for sharing their opinions, or you can engage in the discussion seriously. Or you could (or at least some people could) sit out a thread in which you don't have something to contribute.

[Three Valves]

Besides, the OP can drive the topic off the rails whenever he damn well pleases!!

[Mark]

Please do not use the phrases "economic justice" or "1-per centers" - particularly when not being sarcastic.

Those are trigger words for me. I find them to be offensive, and they may force me seek my safe space.

LIKE++

[Mark]

Mark wrote:

Trying to compare pay rates for different professions is nonsensical. Colin Kaepernick is not even the 8th best quarterback in the NFL; but he's getting nearly $20 million dollars a year. What does that have to do with how much a doctor, engineer or musician makes?

Well, that's your OPINION that it is nonsensical, and I beg to differ.

I should know better than to reply to you; but...

Quarterbacks are not a fair comparison, because the money they bring in has something to do with their inflated salaries. What is the take for one televised football game? So take out the owner's share and other expenses and then divide half the take by about 30 players and you get an idea of where the inflated salaries come from.

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

[Michael Bush]

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

When I was running a development office a while back, we would do a "tuition freedom day" every semester, where we'd ask students to write thank you notes to assigned donors when the percentage of the semester had gone by corresponding to the percentage of the cost of their attendance that was covered by tuition and fees. We'd tell them, "You or your family or your financial aid paid for your attendance up to this point of the semester. From now to the end of the semester, the price of you being here is being covered by our donors. Please thank them."