RESOLVED: Pittsburgh Symphony strike

[royjohn]

Well, so much for a serious discussion...

[royjohn]

bloke wrote:

There really are no updates beyond this (until a strike ends), and - if allowed to go to page 4-5-6, these "strike" threads, inevitably, become political ideology arguments between Marxists and libertarians...or between people who tend to wander more towards one of these two directions than the other...

Well, one could make that argument about any thread where people share ideas and opinions. You can call names and label opinions and ideas as "Marxist" or "libertarian," you can make fun of people for sharing their opinions, or you can engage in the discussion seriously. Or you could (or at least some people could) sit out a thread in which you don't have something to contribute.

[Three Valves]

Besides, the OP can drive the topic off the rails whenever he damn well pleases!!

[Mark]

Please do not use the phrases "economic justice" or "1-per centers" - particularly when not being sarcastic.

Those are trigger words for me. I find them to be offensive, and they may force me seek my safe space.

LIKE++

[Mark]

Mark wrote:

Trying to compare pay rates for different professions is nonsensical. Colin Kaepernick is not even the 8th best quarterback in the NFL; but he's getting nearly $20 million dollars a year. What does that have to do with how much a doctor, engineer or musician makes?

Well, that's your OPINION that it is nonsensical, and I beg to differ.

I should know better than to reply to you; but...

Quarterbacks are not a fair comparison, because the money they bring in has something to do with their inflated salaries. What is the take for one televised football game? So take out the owner's share and other expenses and then divide half the take by about 30 players and you get an idea of where the inflated salaries come from.

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

[Michael Bush]

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

When I was running a development office a while back, we would do a "tuition freedom day" every semester, where we'd ask students to write thank you notes to assigned donors when the percentage of the semester had gone by corresponding to the percentage of the cost of their attendance that was covered by tuition and fees. We'd tell them, "You or your family or your financial aid paid for your attendance up to this point of the semester. From now to the end of the semester, the price of you being here is being covered by our donors. Please thank them."

[Mark]

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

When I was running a development office a while back, we would do a "tuition freedom day" every semester, where we'd ask students to write thank you notes to assigned donors when the percentage of the semester had gone by corresponding to the percentage of the cost of their attendance that was covered by tuition and fees. We'd tell them, "You or your family or your financial aid paid for your attendance up to this point of the semester. From now to the end of the semester, the price of you being here is being covered by our donors. Please thank them."

I like this. On the other hand those feeling the Bern expect all of their tuition to be paid for by some one else and they think they deserve it. Sad.

[JCalkin]

Mark wrote:
Quarterbacks are not a fair comparison, because the money they bring in has something to do with their inflated salaries. What is the take for one televised football game? So take out the owner's share and other expenses and then divide half the take by about 30 players and you get an idea of where the inflated salaries come from.

Plus, there's licensing deals and whatnot to consider. I'll be first in line when these hit the market:

[Three Valves]

I like this. On the other hand those feeling the Bern expect all of their tuition to be paid for by some one else and they think they deserve it. Sad.

It's not a question of "deserving" it.

It's their RIGHT!!

[Billy M.]

btw... [Some of the] low brass players (perhaps, those who don't double as full-time kolij fessers), typically, are the only freedom lovers.

Tuba players being generally independent due to their solitary nature in the orchestra hall probably causes this tendency. The world may never know.

Not so much in band... got all sorts in them there groups.

[Michael Bush]

A development.

...with a petulant comment from the blogger about "a non-native English speaker." How dare a German write a letter in English! What will they allow them to do next?

[Three Valves]

A development.

...with a petulant comment from the blogger about "a non-native English speaker." How dare a German write a letter in English! What will they allow them to do next?

Comment from peanut gallery;

Music is not a commodity, like coal and oil. Music is a public service, like that which institutions of education and medicine provide. We supply plenty of donations in the name of learning and finding a cure. The sooner we realize this the sooner we stop treating these situations as a simple matter of supply and demand. Musicians are not blue collar workers. They should be treated like the professionals they are. In what other profession have the individuals spent all but three to ten years of their lives practicing?

BTW~I spend my entire (non music) professional career "practicing", in continuing education, training and licensing and I don't show up to work in a uniform, play/do what I'm told or belong to a union.

So can it, you elitist snob!!

and this...

They need to ketchup with the other orchestras.

[The Big Ben]

Using this logic, ticket sales for concerts would determine that musicians be paid even less than they are now.

When I was running a development office a while back, we would do a "tuition freedom day" every semester, where we'd ask students to write thank you notes to assigned donors when the percentage of the semester had gone by corresponding to the percentage of the cost of their attendance that was covered by tuition and fees. We'd tell them, "You or your family or your financial aid paid for your attendance up to this point of the semester. From now to the end of the semester, the price of you being here is being covered by our donors. Please thank them."

I like this. On the other hand those feeling the Bern expect all of their tuition to be paid for by some one else and they think they deserve it. Sad.

My undergrad college experience was in he late 70s/early 80s. It was not free but it was affordable. My parents put a portion of money away for about ten years which really didn't change our everyday life, I went to a state school with a good reputation, I held a part time job during the school year and a full time job in the summer. I graduated without debt. I'm of the opinion that a college education should be 'affordable' not free. In my state, one could attend a two-year college for about 1/2 the tuition rate of a four year college and that was an option for people with less money. Often, the instruction for first and second year subjects is better at the two-year college because the classes are much smaller and the instructors are much better. Besides, college isn't for everyone. The horn jockeys on this board who didn't learn their skills through apprenticeship went to some sort of vocational school and finished off with a formal or informal apprenticeship under who knew more than they did. Our economy is screaming for carpenters, plumbers and electricians. Many of the immigrants (legal and Illegal) are employed in the building trades. If the construction trades aren't "good enough" for Americans to work, Americans need an attitude adjustment.

[bisontuba]

http://slippedisc.com/2016/10/exclusive ... -replaced/" target="_blank

http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/20 ... 1610050208" target="_blank

[Three Valves]

A development.

...with a petulant comment from the blogger about "a non-native English speaker." How dare a German write a letter in English! What will they allow them to do next?

http://slippedisc.com/2016/10/exclusive ... -replaced/" target="_blank

http://www.post-gazette.com/ae/music/20 ... 1610050208" target="_blank" target="_blank

I guess his lawyer is German too??

Now that they've gotten together, how can Czechoslovakia ever feel safe??

[Michael Bush]

I guess his lawyer is German too??

That makes this even funnier:

The letter was clearly written by a non-native English speaker.

What a guy.

[The Big Ben]

A development.

...with a petulant comment from the blogger about "a non-native English speaker." How dare a German write a letter in English! What will they allow them to do next?

Yeah. It's them Damn Furriners.

[Three Valves]

Laff all you want but have you seen what the Germans have done to Cincinnati??

[joebob]

There is no way that management will be able to hire "replacements" that are anywhere near a major orchestra standard. Anyone who is already a member of a full time orchestra or who subs with a full time orchestra will not work with a "replacement" orchestra because that would be the end of their career in union orchestras. Any conductor or soloist who worked with a replacement orchestra would never be hired by another professional orchestra. If they did get hired by a union orchestra the union members would walk off the stage as soon as that conductor or soloist got there. The only people who would work as "replacements" are people who already have no chance to ever work with a major symphony orchestra. Anyone who is actually good enough to play with the PSO would never risk their future careers by crossing the picket line.

[Three Valves]

There is no way that management will be able to hire "replacements" that are anywhere near a major orchestra standard. Anyone who is already a member of a full time orchestra or who subs with a full time orchestra will not work with a "replacement" orchestra because that would be the end of their career in union orchestras. Any conductor or soloist who worked with a replacement orchestra would never be hired by another professional orchestra. If they did get hired by a union orchestra the union members would walk off the stage as soon as that conductor or soloist got there. The only people who would work as "replacements" are people who already have no chance to ever work with a major symphony orchestra. Anyone who is actually good enough to play with the PSO would never risk their future careers by crossing the picket line.

1. They are subs now, being kept out of work by the union. Why would they feel that way?? How can they "lose" what they don't have??

2. So said the NFL Players Union.