Playing with Ear protection

[tyrell1111]

Hello All!

While playing in front of the timpani during one of my recent band rehearsals, I found myself thinking "Wow. This is really loud!" Again, while playing bass in jazz band I found myself saying, "This is really loud". After talking with one of my friends, and doing some worrying about my future as a band director, (I'm a BME student) I recently invested in some earplugs. Just some basic $12.95 Etymotic plugs to help reduce the noise around me. Here is where the problem started. I found that I couldn't hear my sound at all and was playing more by feel rather than listening to those around me. Is there a workaround for this or did i spend $13 on fancy earplugs for later use? Has anyone had success with this?

[cctubaneeds]

I teach a large band program, and my district made me get Musician's Earplugs. I tried them for 3 months. Initially I thought they were okay to use with my youngest groups, but I was making them play very loud and not musical. I think they are still in my desk somewhere but I don't think will never use them again. I feel that I need to be able to hear clearly to teach musically, and those ear plugs took too much away for me.

I am trying to get my school to do some sound suppression in my room or get me a bigger band room, but I have come agains some resistance.

For those that are interested or have experience different than mine. I have these.
http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearin ... /erme.html" target="_blank
I was suggested the 15 db versions. If someone has used the 9 db, or the "Musician-Pro" and had different results I would love to hear from you. Or other plugs that work well, please PM me.

[tubeast]

I had a set of those custom made for me. (Technician squirted some kind o goo into my ear and cast silicone earplugs equipped with sonic filters out of a large palette to choose from).
Cost 200,- €.VERY comfortable to wear for extended periods of time.
AWESOME for long car trips.
Very good for "sandbag practice".
I never use them on stage, though, for the reasons the OP mentioned.

For use during rehearsal / performance in-ear monitors might do the trick.
But You´ll have to mic the sound somehow, and preparatory setup work involved may give Your colleagues something to chat about at the bar.

[Tom]

Important topic. I sent the OP a PM also, but then thought that perhaps much of the content could benefit others and decided to post some of that information here.

I am relatively young (under 40) and have profound hearing loss to the point that I now wear hearing aids daily in an effort to be able to hear all sorts of "normal" things, not just music. My hearing loss has been determined to be primarily genetic rather than via trauma and overexposure to loud noise, but hearing protection for folks that already have hearing loss and/or wear hearing aids is absolutely critical.

I began wearing ear plugs religiously about 10 years ago when I started working full time with orchestras as an administrator and production manager. I have tried several types and the ear plugs that you have are as good as anything for getting started, but not all ear plugs are created equal. Even though I now wear hearing aids, when I am in a situation that it loud or just really noisy, I'll take my hearing aids out and use earplugs instead. I even wear ear plugs when I mow my lawn.

As someone dealing with hearing loss, I cannot stress enough how important it is to protect your hearing, especially if you want to work as a band or orchestra director. Hearing generally cannot be fixed - once it's gone, it's gone. Hearing aid technology is amazing and can help you better hear and understand what you CAN hear, but they cannot make the ear hear sounds that it cannot physically hear once permanent loss or damage has occurred. The time to protect your hearing is while you still have it.

Some here know that I work as an orchestra administrator. I hear more live orchestral music than most people do - nearly every single day from late August through July 4 of the following summer. I am very careful with my hearing. We have done a lot of experiments with sound levels and hearing protection here. We regularly run SPL meters in rehearsals and concerts to determine how loud things really are on the stage. It is not unusual to have sustained levels in excess of 90 dbA and peaks in excess of 110 dbA, and sometimes even well in excess of that (Verdi Requiem, anyone?) That is really loud. We have to deal with OSHA here that tells us that sound at those levels can be tolerated for 15 minutes or less before permanent hearing damage occurs. We do hearing tests here every year for the orchestra members and the results are pretty eye-opening in terms of the exposure damage that some of them have. Some time ago we actually paid for the entire orchestra to have custom ear plugs made that are molded to fit and we also keep foam ear plugs on hand for anyone that needs spares. Many of our orchestra members wear ear plugs during rehearsals and performances...that should tell you something!

I was seriously considering buying these and definitely would try them if I was playing more often or working as a band director: http://www.etymotic.com/consumer/hearin ... mp915.html" target="_blank" target="_blank These are expensive (about $300) but they use hearing aid technology to allow a better and more natural hearing experience. Some hearing aids, such as the ones I have, are not "closed," so they don't just plug up the ear canal completely and block all sound. They are "open" so that I can hear through the hearing aid but also "around" the hearing aid. This is the key to getting natural sound and not feeling like you're plugged up. I have none of the hollow sound or the echo most people get when wearing ear plugs. These particular ear plugs work in a very similar manner.

That said, I carry and wear the cheap $10-$15 etymotic plastic ear plugs all the time (15 db cut). They work fine, but plug you up pretty good, blocking a lot of sound. Nothing wrong with them for what they are, but there are better choices (such as the one above) for better hearing. I use them when I don't want to hear something. Playing with them in takes getting used to. It does not sound the same to the player...there is no way to avoid the plugged up hollow sound with an ear plug, but the etymotic I linked to above seems promising (I have not tried it) and gets toward the "open" concept I was talking about.

You can get custom ear molds, too. It usually takes going to an audiologist to get those, but they work well and are custom fit. That's the most expensive option, usually.

I guess that my bottom line advice is don't be a hero. Protect your hearing now, while you still have it. Experiment with what works while you have the opportunity. You can always download a free SPL meter for your phone and let it run in rehearsal to get a sense of what you're in the middle of. I would recommend trying that.

[MSchott]

Excellent advice. I'm in my late 50's and have pretty bad hearing loss, especially in my left ear. No doubt it's due to playing in wind and brass bands for 40 plus years. Many orchestral players use earplugs like the Etymotic above. Last year I played second chair brass band euph next to an extremely strong player. I wore an earplug in my left ear during rehearsals and concerts. It was not really comfortable but I it was effective and the result was I could hear myself better and in particular focus on my intonation and blend.

[UDELBR]

With the cheaper Etymotics which have three flexible flanges, you can insert them into the ear canal as far as you like, effectively tailoring their effectiveness as sound barrier.

Earplugs are a real drag, but they sure beat losing your hearing!

[MaryAnn]

I credit my lack of significant hearing loss to the use of custom fitted musicians plugs for the last 20 years. It does rather dramatically change what you hear, and my main problem at first was that I could not hear my tone quality. But you can still hear the pitch as "head noise." I always wear them, trust that my chops know how to make the right sound, and use them also for long car trips and plane flights. I'm very happy that i have neither destroyed them nor lost them over this period of time. They do take some getting used to, and it makes it hard to hear what the conductor is saying from the back row.

[WillDellinger]

I have been wondering about whether or not this is necessary for practice. I am only 24 and have slight high frequency loss in my left (bell side) ear. Just got my meter in the mail, and a reasonable forte measured 103 dB! I'm surprised more people don't talk about these, but OVER ear protection (ear muffs) causes NONE of the occlusion jaw noise that has always driven me away from ear plugs. I ordered a pair with 15 and a pair with 22 dB attenuation. Just to get practicing back into a safe range without blocking everything. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of ear muffs that mention flat attenuation curves, but I'll let you all know how these work out.

[MaryAnn]

I would stick a foam (cheap) ear plug in your left ear and just get used to how it sounds. It is disorienting at first but you adapt over time. It is WAY better than losing your hearing. If you really are uptight about the sound, record yourself with and without it until you are sure you are getting the same sound with it.

[Donn]

I'm surprised more people don't talk about these, but OVER ear protection (ear muffs) causes NONE of the occlusion jaw noise that has always driven me away from ear plugs. I ordered a pair with 15 and a pair with 22 dB attenuation. Just to get practicing back into a safe range without blocking everything. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of ear muffs that mention flat attenuation curves, but I'll let you all know how these work out.

Please do! Never tried it for music, but headphone-like ear protection works much better for me when operating table saw etc. And I like the look - there's a regular tendency to try to make me sit next to the snare drummer, who beats that thing with all his might when he gets excited and you can feel your aural cilia dying. I've already made it clear I'm not up for that, so if it looks like I suited up for aircraft carrier duty, that suits my purposes fine.

[MaryAnn]

in a community band a few years ago, the person who set up the stage put the trombones against the back wall and the horns directly in front. As a section we refused to sit down until the positions were reversed. Some people are just stupid.

[WillDellinger]

I get what bloke and MaryAnn are talking about. We talk so much about protection during rehearsal. But I'm talking about practicing on your own at home. I wouldn't have believed it would clock in anywhere near 100 dB, but for anyone who is doing a few hours of more at home, that is well above the threshold at which damage can occur. That's why I'm looking for muffs at home. I agree that in-ear plugs are a lot more convenient and less weird looking for gigs or full band rehearsal.

I've only used bargain shooting ear muffs I had in the closet so far, but the uneven frequency response is much less annoying than the buzzy jaw sound I was getting from foam plugs. I also ordered two different commonly recommended in-ear silicone plugs. I'll let you all know the verdict later this week.

[enhite]

I bought Etymotic Research ETY Plugs High Fidelity Earplugs for use a concerts where the sound guy seems to think louder = better. With them inserted, the sound is reduced but still musical. The results are much better than the foam ear plugs I used to wear around industrial noise. I have not used them in rehearsals as the groups that I currently play in aren't overwhelmingly loud.

[ken k]

I'm sorry, did you say something...

[Leland]

My earplug preferences for music, in order:
- Earasers (in medium and strong filter strengths)
- Etymotics (only used the cheap ones, though)
- Custom-molded Westone (I think)
- Foam
- Flanged solid rubber

With any of them, if I don't install them deeply enough, I can't hear myself at all. BUT, if they're properly deep, I can hear that "buzzy jaw sound", which I'll take over having my ears ring all night afterwards. That "buzzy jaw sound" also greatly exposes how stable my sound is (or isn't) and the quality of my tonguing (or lack thereof), so I think it's helpful for me.

The only reason I don't like the custom-molded plugs is because the shape of my ear canal changes over time (the manufacturer recommends getting refitted every three years) and once they don't get a good seal, they're nearly useless. Mine also came with different filter strengths, including solid plastic inserts -- which make a really strange sound that's like running everything through a crash cymbal.

It's also a lot less mentally taxing to wear earplugs through a full rehearsal. I can see other players getting a little stressed, even in community band, while I can't help but feel calm.

This was my old job -- about fifty brass plus battery percussion and mallets. Earplugs were part of our budget, obviously; some used earmuffs as well.

[Donn]

I get what bloke and MaryAnn are talking about. We talk so much about protection during rehearsal. But I'm talking about practicing on your own at home. I wouldn't have believed it would clock in anywhere near 100 dB, but for anyone who is doing a few hours of more at home, that is well above the threshold at which damage can occur.

Would love for an audiologist to chime in as I was once told that low pitches do not incur as much damage as high pitches, even at the same db.

Anecdotally, I sometimes notice some feeling of temporary hearing loss after practicing - but only saxophone, have never noticed it with tuba.

[Tom]

I get what bloke and MaryAnn are talking about. We talk so much about protection during rehearsal. But I'm talking about practicing on your own at home. I wouldn't have believed it would clock in anywhere near 100 dB, but for anyone who is doing a few hours of more at home, that is well above the threshold at which damage can occur.

Would love for an audiologist to chime in as I was once told that low pitches do not incur as much damage as high pitches, even at the same db.

I am not an audiologist, but as a hearing aid wearer (as mentioned above), I work with one. I have asked this exact question of them if for no other reason than I was curious to hear the answer from an expert. I am paraphrasing here, but basically it is this:

High frequencies cause more damage since energy in a sound increases with frequency.

BUT...the energy depends on amplitude, since energy is proportional to the amplitude via some formulaic relationship. Amplitude, as I understand it, is basically the "loudness" in a sound which makes the amplitude factor more damaging than the overall frequency. So, a "loud" low frequency wave could be more damaging than a "softer" high frequency wave but to address your question of what is worse: high frequency or low frequency at the same dB, the answer would be that the high frequency sound does the most damage because it carries the most energy. That isn't to say the "loud" low frequency sounds are safe, just that between the two in a scientific sense the highs are worse for you.

[jbaylies]

I was born with high frequency hearing loss and get my hearing checked about once a year, and even after studying music in college and playing sousaphone next to ridiculous snare drummers my hearing hasn't gotten any worse... I think most hearing loss nowadays stems from listening to headphones at visceral levels. That's something I always avoid. I bought "flat-liner earmuffs" to use in ensembles but they make my tuba sound so dead that I don't bother. They are really useful for loud concerts, though. It's nice to be able to set my hearing aids to their music setting while wear the earmuffs over them.