BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Rick Denney »

the elephant wrote:What hard case solutions have 6/4 horn owners come up with?
None. But I have the same need you do, though the application is different. My ProTec bag is fine, I guess, but it's wearing out and I'm gonna have to spend some money on the issue anyway. Wheels are a requirement, as is a clamshell design. The cloth-covered high-density foam knockoffs made in China might work well enough, or the lightweight plastic-shelled cases. The Yamaha case for my F tuba has done its job for 20 years--something like that would be perfect. A close fit is more important than ultimate protection, as with Wade's case.

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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Rick Denney »

Did a little research:

Joe Exley is using an ultralight case made by Accord (http://accordcase.com/model.asp?m=3.18.1), which looks perfect. But their sizing form shows a rotary tuba, which is the kind Joe plays, so a dialogue with them will be needed to determine if they can make one for front-action piston BAT's the size (including that enormous front valve projection) of Holtons. Not too cheap, I expect, but I didn't see any prices. Very, very light at under 14 pounds for the model that fits a 4/4 rotary tuba.

MTS shows cases for the 2165, 2265, 6450, and HB-50 as "in development". I suppose that's better than "fuggedaboutit". Prices seem to be in the $500-600 range for their molded plastic cases for smaller tubas. But their cases are heavy: 33 pounds for the model that fits a Miraphone 186. Too heavy for me.

Unitec cases are even heavier than MTS cases, but they are only a little more expensive than MTS cases and perhaps have better hardware. But still too heavy for me to consider using one instead of a gig bag.

Rick "who needs to create a sketch showing dimensions to send to the Accord people to see if they are willing to make a case of that size" Denney
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by joh_tuba »

Would be amazingly nice if Accord made 6/4 cases but 1) it will cost you at least $2000 and 2) my strong impression is that they've not yet made a case larger than what fits a Miraphone 186. I hope I'm wrong on both of those facts. A friend recently purchased an Accord for a Firebird. The cost was right at $2000.

Could you retrofit the interior of a MW aluminum case or the Baer flight case to fit your horn? Would either of those fit through the door of your back seat?

As a point of reference: My PT6 in a Walt Johnson 6/4 shell case weighs 76lbs sans ANYTHING extra(not even the mouthpiece). Even with wheels it's not conducive to frequent use. Perhaps you are a much stronger man than I. The upside to such a large heavy case is the pure joy of watching an airline luggage monkey unload your horn off a conveyor belt and gear up to see how far he can toss it only to barely lift it and have his buddies laugh at him.

I've never managed to fit my WJ case into the side door of a car. I'm amazed that Bloke claims to fit his in Corolla. I really can't imagine that there are many cars that you could reasonably expect to wedge this thing past the door opening without damage. A big impediment to fitting this case through a side door isn't just the width of the door frame. You must also contend with the fact that you can't get a straight shot into the opening because doors aren't designed to open a full 90 degrees. ALSO the seat itself blocks part of the opening. It's possible that you COULD fit the case in your back seat IF you remove the seat itself. Is yours removable?
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by PMeuph »

the elephant wrote:
bloke wrote:... I still might do the Rhino-Shield job on my vintage wood case...
I have not considered Rhino-lining a case shell. I have had wooden cases fiberglassed at boat places before; very strong and light. ........

Without wanting to hi-jack the thread... How much fiberglass was needed/used? and. Roughly, how much did it cost?

Also, concerning Rhino-shield, do you mean the stuff for truck beds or for houses?

I have an old case for my B&H EEb, and I would much rather fix it up than have to buy a new case.

_______
Just out of curiosity, does Yamaha make a case for the Yama-York?
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by PMeuph »

Thanks for the reply, I'll have to call some boat places in town.
the elephant wrote:
PMeuph wrote:Also, concerning Rhino-shield, do you mean the stuff for truck beds or for houses?
I meant the bed liner stuff. Do they make a version for houses? How would they apply that???
It's either sprayed on or applied with a roller. It's essentially a thick paint with ceramic in it. They claim the thickness is about 8-10 times thicker than that of regular latex paint.

http://rhinoshield.net/" target="_blank
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by tubajoe »

Oh man... a thread with my name on it!!

Cool - lots to tell case wise. I'll post something within the next day or so.

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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Tuba-G Bass »

Wade,
I use a MTS 1209V with my 5/4 BBb Rudy Meinl,
the Bell is 19 and 5/8ths inches,
and stands about 42 inches high.
I did have to take the storage box out for the horn to fit,
plus it was pretty snug until the padding got used to the horn.

Too bad I live in Allentown, PA,
too far away to meet up and test fit the Holton.
:tuba:
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by cambrook »

A couple of friends have MTS cases for their Thors - I think they are the 1209V?
In any case, the big mouthpiece box is removable by taking out 2 screws, and the case will then fit a MW6450 very easily. I borrowed one to fly across the country and there was so much room that I had to use a beach-ball in the bell to stop the 6450 moving around inside the case.

Of course there's no way of knowing for sure without testing it for yourself especially with such a unique instrument as yours! but I think it's very likely that case would work for you.

BTW, it is very easy to remove and replace the mouthpiece box without marking the case, there was no damage to trim or anything.

Good luck,

Cam
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by tubajoe »

Hello folks

I’ve laid low on touting Accord here on TubeNet, as the bbs here has understandably taken a stance against plugging products on here. I don't want to exploit the bbs.

So, disclosure... I don’t work for Accord, but I am sort of a sponsoree/endorsee of them. I have been their guinea pig for development of their tuba case. And, I friggin LOVE the thing. Sorry if it sounds like a commercial, there's lots to tell, and lot's that I've learned. It's been an interesting progression and development... and it's something I believe the tuba community at large definitely needs to know about.

SO...Since you asked (and the topic has my name 8) )... I’ll go ahead, (but if the mods want to delete, etc, that’s cool, I understand.)


NOW, To initially answer your question:
Accord says they can can make anything, I have asked them about cases for other sized horns and they say anything is possible. I have talked to them about 6/4 BAT cases as well as front-action piston horns, and they say yes it's all doable.


The background:
(I get a lot of questions about this crazy tuba case...so I'll use this opportunity to try to kill as many birds here as I can)

Within the last couple of years, I’ve started to tour quite frequently, most of it internationally. Previously, I traveled with a road-style prosound case, or before that, a couple of home made crates. Domestically, I often avoided air travel whenever I could (taking trains, driving etc). However, things have now progressed and I needed to embrace a new situation for traveling with my horn.

I was finally in the market for a new case and sought out all I could. I found *NOTHING* in the tuba world which suited my needs... and I did not want to downsize my horn. Size matters, I like playing a full sized contrabass tuba.

I need a case that I can manually transport from the plane to a train, to a car, through a busy city, and without extra transportation cost and logistic time.

A trumpet player in my band had a form-fit fibreglass clamshell case that I dug. i figured there was no reason that couldn't be made for tuba. I can’t remember the company’s name, but I know I did contact them, and they made nothing larger than a euphonium case, and only dealt in production-model horns.

My next step was to seek out high-end casemakers of other instruments, most notably cello and guitar, as they have higher tech options -- and their instruments, while lighter, are almost infinitely more valuable and fragile. The new innovation in cases appears to be carbon-fibre cases (like fiberglass, but much lighter, but also more expensive)

It seemed my best bet was to commission a custom case. I then found Accord, one of the major hi-end string case companies... it’s a small company based in Pula, Croatia, which are considered innovators in custom carbon-fibre technology, who also recently started making wind cases. They are mainly a cello case maker, Yo-Yo Ma uses them, as does the whole cello sections of the Vienna and Berlin Phils. I see their cello cases all over NYC and Europe. I made it a point to seek out and talk to some cello players who owned them as well.

It turned out that Accord had been expanding their line and over the last few years have started making wind instrument cases as well as other things. They did develop a tuba case, and I was interested in their production model, and they were interested in me as a test subject.

They had already developed a stock design which they have sold, which is basically for a 4/4 tuba, be it a rotary CC/F, or reversible for an upright English style horn (Besson etc) My horn of choice is a vintage Miraphone 186, so it was just right. (more on this...)

So, I took the plunge and ordered one, and they hand made it based on a blueprint I made of my tuba, with about 20-30 specific measurement points. I had them modify it too, including the addition of a backpack system, which they had never used on a tuba case.

The case was manufactured and delivered exactly on schedule.

The case is a work of art and completely revolutionized my travel with my horn. It did exactly what I wanted... a flight case, which performs like a gig bag. (sounds far fetched, but it's true)

It weighs under 20 lbs empty, with a full compliment of interior padding. It's not a nuclear-proof trunk, but it is quite strong for it's very light weight. It is also 100% repairable, so if any part of it gets damaged, it can always be fixed.

Due to my “early adopter” status, mine was great, but not perfect; still a ‘work in progress’. They used their stock hardware that they use in their cello cases, but at first they proved not strong enough for a tuba once out in the field.

They came out to met me while I was playing in Salzburg (shortly after I got the case) and put on stronger hinges right away.

I took the thing on many cross-continental flights, and naturally the airlines lost it, found it, beat the crap out of it, broke a handle, broke a wheel housing... the usual airline baggage monkey-business. It totally got put to the test. Once, it also fell out the back of a minivan (from about 5-6 feet up) onto the pavement. On top of that it's been on countless subway and cab rides... it’s my “everyday case”. I no longer use a gig bag. It's saved my horn countless times.

It held up to all that torture well, but still needed some minor improvement... and the company wanted to inspect and repair/update it. Instead of me sending it, I was playing in Venice, Italy a couple of months ago, so I stayed an extra couple of days and took it to over Pula myself (Pula is directly across the Adriatic Sea from Venice) and got to hang with the folks in the factory.

There they analyzed the wear and tear on the case, and photographed and the entire team inspected it with a fine tooth comb. They replaced a bunch of things... stronger wheels, exterior bumpers, hinges (also changed the placement of them to aid in alignment), added another lock, and made some changes to the inside of the case as well to better stabilize the horn. They also took my recommendations of what to do for further models. (I also spoke to them about making a version for front-piston horns...more on this...)

So, my updated version has been faring well. Even better than the first. It’s been on one international trip and one domestic (which tends to be worse). I fly to Europe again in a week.

New models will be even better than my updated version, as they have made changes based on both my wear and tear, as well suggestion.

This company has been AMAZING to work with. They’ve taken the time to work with me and help me and learn from my experience. I can’t say enough good about the customer support I’ve been given. Absolutely incredible. Unlike most manufacturers of goods these days, this company believes and puts their sweat and blood into every case they make. In fact they stopped using computers in the design, as they felt it better to completely do it by hand. Every case is unique and completely hand made.

The carbon is interesting stuff, it is slightly pliable, but also very rigid. It's pliability is what gives it its protection... something has to absorb the shock.

Yep, they are expensive. Expect to pay about double of a Baer Unitec.. Worth every penny. I’d buy one again in a heartbeat.

Now, to the question of different size horns....

When at their shop in Pula (just steps from the bus station!), I talked to them about other models... their answer was “we can make anything. Anything.” They had a custom balalaika flight case there... gun cases, even kayaks. When legendary race car driver Michael Schumacher was having back issues... with a doctor, Accord made a custom-made seat for his Ferrari F1 racecar. The most famous racecar driver in the world races with a seat made by a cello case maker... because they are that good at handcrafting carbon. The president of Croatia uses a custom briefcase made by Accord.

Every case is completely custom and hand made. While they start with the stock design, it can be infinitely modified. I believe they have been working on a 6/4 case etc.
It's a matter of demand driving design, if people order them, they will make them. And, while that process happens, I can personally attest that they will do everything in their power to make sure the product and experience exceeds your expectations. I suggest contacting them (tell them I sent you... LOL :mrgreen: ) and ask them straight out. They are remarkably responsive.

If in the market for such a thing, I would say definitely give them a try. My experience has been extraordinary and has been completely revolutionized my ability to travel with my tuba. I didn't go into this looking for a case company to plug, I went into this just to find a tuba case... and they have done so well. It's the only case like it in the world.

As for specifics... the case weighs about 40lbs with the horn in it. I also usually pack it with some clothes too, usually as much as I can up to the 50lb standard airline limit. This opens up room in my carryon suitcase which is needed for equipment in addition to clothes. I also "prep" the case when I get to the airport, I remove the backpack apparatus, and tape down (with gaffers tape) the strap hooks, so they don't get caught on anything. I also put a luggage strap around it, just as one other security measure, in case security workers don't close the locks correctly. I put instructions and a photo inside the case, just to help with the horn being handled and repacked correctly, as it gets opened between countries.

While far under the standard airplane baggage weight requirements, it is oversized baggage... just barely. I have not had many issues with this though.

Upon baggage collection at my destination, it sometimes gets delivered via oversize baggage, or sometimes it just comes right up with all the suitcases on the main conveyor. I'd say about 50/50. One thing that helps is to always have enough time during flight layovers, don't take the quickest transfer. For instance, I can now almost guarantee like clockwork that if I don't have at least 2 hours through a hub like Heathrow, that the horn will get delayed to the next flight. I usually try to allow 3 hours layover. Also, if you have to collect and recheck (as in Heathrow to Gatwick) leave a LOT of time, as the tuba often comes off last.

It's enabled me to make many trips... with a full-sized CC tuba onto buses, trains, boats, planes, crowded subways in both Europe and the USA etc etc...

ps - their website is a bit out of date. Don't take it as a thing, they do most of their business through resellers and via word of mouth.


here's some photos:

I don't have a photo of me wearing it, but here it is next to some people so you can judge size. The woman on the left is not tall... maybe 5'4 or 5'5". That's the back of the case, you can clearly see the backpack apparatus.

Image


In San Marco, in Venice, as I literally was on my way to the Accord factory in Pula. (the "TubaJoe" graphic was added by Accord, commissioned of Brooklyn artist Dmitri Drjuchin)

Image


After unboxing it about a year ago, with my helper. This is with the older, thinner handles.

Image


The interior of the case. Since then the cushion configuration, as well as the handles have been updated.

Image


On the train in London, fits right into the luggage rack. The case has the updated, stronger handles in this photo.

Image


Here's a photo of it backstage at Carnegie Hall, just for the heck of it. :tuba:

Image
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Lectron »

Necroing this one.

My tuba case managed to take some damage on a trip to Gemany.
I suspect a MTS 1209 would fit (Maybe Elephant could confirm if a Holton fits in a 1209)
Anyways....shipping to Norway kinda kills the good price, as the MTS is reasonable priced,
and I could have a flight case made for the same prise. Or. I could buy a Kariso 273

Would anyone know if a Karsio 273 would fit a Holton345/BMB765?

Thank you :tuba:
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Erik_Sweden »

Miraphone have hard cases for Siegfried, maybe thats big enough ?
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Lectron »

The Sigfried should be big enough....
I'll give'em a mail.
Thanks

It's probably made by Jacob Winter BTW, so I might make a better deal on a JW
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Lars Trawen »

My Melton 200 (it's a true kaiser tuba, bell diam 500 mm, 1.140 mm tall) fits perfectly in Jacob Winter's biggest tuba case.
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Re: BAT Hard Cases (Attention: Joe Exley)

Post by Lectron »

Lectron wrote:Necroing this one.

My tuba case managed to take some damage on a trip to Gemany.
I suspect a MTS 1209 would fit (Maybe Elephant could confirm if a Holton fits in a 1209)
Anyways....shipping to Norway kinda kills the good price, as the MTS is reasonable priced,
and I could have a flight case made for the same prise. Or. I could buy a Kariso 273

Would anyone know if a Karsio 273 would fit a Holton345/BMB765?

Thank you :tuba:
Internals Kariso:

Highness: 96,5cm
Width: 56,5cm (up) 45,5cm(bottom)
Depth: 47cm (bell)
Melton 200 -=- Melton 2141 -=- Cerveny 883 Opera -=- Besson 992 -=- MPCs: 3pcs steel (Sellmansberger/Parker)
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