Arnold Jacobs on another tuba

[Alex C]

Tuba players identify Arnold Jacobs with his large York tuba as much as with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. He played surprisingly few other instruments in performance for having more than a 40 year career. So when I ran up on two photos of Jacobs with what appear to be 4/4 CC tubas I was surprised and could not identify either. Here is one of the pictures, an early photo of the CSO quintet, do you know the small(ish) tuba in this photo?

Sorry, folks, the image is no longer hosted online.


I looked carefully trying to get a positive ID on it without success. I finally contacted Ron Tasa, a student of Jacobs and a longtime wealth of tuba knowledge for musicians interested in the history of American tubas. He replied that this matched his 4/4 CC York perfectly and that he was familiar with this particular tuba. Then he gave me a 60 year history of it.

"Here is what I know about the horn. Jake sold it to Tucci some time in the 1950's. Tucci however in his early career made more use of the Conn model he purchased from his teacher Harold McDonald. In the early 80's Tucci acquired another York from McDonald. At this point T(ucci) sold the Jacobs York to John Fletcher. In turn Fletcher sold the horn to Ken Young of the New Zealand Symphony who was a student of Fletcher. In 1999 Young retired and the horn passed to Jonathan Baker, a gentleman I have had a few email exchanges with. Baker followed Ken Young in the New Zealand orchestra. I don't know the serial number but according to Baker and John Swain's list the tuba dates from 1939. I think Baker has moved on from the horn now."

Snap. Research is as easy as pie if you know who to contact.

[bisontuba]

Great stuff-tnx!

[Rick Denney]

Alex, when was the picture made? I'm sure it can be dated based on who's in it, but my CSO roster lore is weak.

Rick "whose research sometimes runs into people no longer living, which is a problem" Denney

[rperrym]

According to their archives on their website, Frank Crisafulli played from 1938 until 1989 and Renold Schilke played from 1936 to 1951, if that helps.
I know that is a wide range of dates.

Rick

[proam]

Hugh Cowden, horn, was in the CSO from 1951-1954. If Schilke was only in until 1951, that might imply a 1951 date for the photograph.

[Michael Bush]

I've never seen a brass quintet sit in that configuration before. What is the story with that?

[Alex C]

I feel sure the picture is from the early fifties but that is as far as I'm willing to go. The quintet didn't last that long. Jacobs description to me was about like they did some tours, made a recording played some concerts and went back to the orchestra.

My high school band director was in college when the CSO quintet came to perform a concert at the University of Mississippi and that would have been no later than 1954. He remembered Jake pulling dirty clothes out of his tuba bell but forgot to tell me that Jacobs was the best tuba player he ever heard.

[Toobist]

I've never seen a brass quintet sit in that configuration before. What is the story with that?

It's not at all uncommon.

[TubaKen]

I've never seen a brass quintet sit in that configuration before. What is the story with that?

Gotta be a pose for the photographer. Though I guess it might work if they were about three feet farther apart from each other.

[Alex C]

There is another photo in that setup with the musicians further apart. The person who has it said an original had been on the wall at Schilke's Wabash AVe. store for years.

[rsanbornmorgan]

I like that setup. Whenever I play in quintet, at the center spot, I always turn my chair/stand/body so that I can see all 4 players, without my bell obstructing the view of the 2 on my left. Maybe I'll try that... They do look very squeezed together, though!

[pecktime]

Maybe they were doing a gig in an elevator?

[Conn 2J CC]

I haven't heard anything about Ron Tasa in years. He was a Tuba instructor at the University of Illinois' Illinois Summer Youth Music camps during my four high school years in the late 1970s. I owe him a lot - he and Dan Perantoni were major influences for me. If possible, someone please tell him yours truly, Dave Ivy, send his regards and thanks.

[JohnSzkutko]

"Here is what I know about the horn. Jake sold it to Tucci some time in the 1950's. Tucci however in his early career made more use of the Conn model he purchased from his teacher Harold McDonald. In the early 80's Tucci acquired another York from McDonald. At this point T(ucci) sold the Jacobs York to John Fletcher. In turn Fletcher sold the horn to Ken Young of the New Zealand Symphony who was a student of Fletcher. In 1999 Young retired and the horn passed to Jonathan Baker, a gentleman I have had a few email exchanges with. Baker followed Ken Young in the New Zealand orchestra. I don't know the serial number but according to Baker and John Swain's list the tuba dates from 1939. I think Baker has moved on from the horn now."

A few yeas ago, Jonathon sold this tuba to Thomas Allely of the Queensland Symphony Orchestra, Australia. I, along with many others, have had the chance to play with it. It has a great sound and is easy to blow. Tom eventually had a 5th valve added to this horn. Sadly, something went wrong with this procedure and it became non functioning. But this didn't stop Tom using this horn, resorting to much slide manipulation for the lower register.

He has moved on to a "Cooley" Nirschl beast. As for the future of this "Grand old Duke (of York)"... over to you Tom...

[cambrook]

I was waiting for Thomas to chime in on this thread, but he doesn't come on TN often. I want to clarify JS's comment, which implies that the repairman who did the work botched the job:

Sadly, something went wrong with this procedure and it became non functioning

I was very surprised to read that as Thomas hadn't mentioned it to me on any of the times that we've talked horns and restorations, so I asked him what happened. He replied:
"About 18 months ago it got a knock and some of the solder joints popped. It stopped working - a local guy fixed the joints and descaled the 5th - it's working fine again."

Perhaps I'm being over-sensitive on behalf of the reputation of my good friend who did the work on Thomas' old York - if so I apologise.

[Ken Herrick]

This whole topic has been interesting! It seems that Jake had 2 of these Yorks at different times. In 66-67 one suddenly appeared in his basement studio. It had just been restored by 'Jerry" at Karnes Music in the northern suburbs. I played a lesson on it and wanted to buy it but, Jake was considering using it for the upcoming Pops concerts, under Morton Gould, doing the RVW so it was not for sale at that time. Jake had the big York at home too as he was still undecided as to which to use. We both played passages to make comparisons both as player and listener. We both agreed that the smaller horn would have been better, if for no other reason than "ease of playing" in the higher range and a better, purer sound. I always felt it would have been the better choice. However, Bud Herseth suggested that since the big York was the one people were used to hearing him play he should use it so that is the way he went. At my first lesson after the performance I was asked what I honestly thought. I said I would have preferred the smaller horn and the response was an agreeable hummmm, possibly so.

Not long after I had put together an amount of cash I felt sure would buy the horn, which, as I recall, had a fifth valve added by Jerry. "Sorry, too late - I just sold it to Ron Bishop in Cleveland". I have since had reason to have some doubts about where it actually went so can only report what Jake told me. That, to me at least,added to the above history of the horn in the photo, pretty clearly indicates ownership of two different horns. This all makes me really wonder what happened to the second one.

As for the photo, I recall seeing the one in Ren's studio when I was working there . Ren insisted that I should spend as much time as possible practicing with slow work days sometimes involving more practice than work time and he often acted as a coach. Couldn't ask for a better employer!

[Mike-Johnson-Custom]

I can vaguely recall seeing pictures of Ken Young's York. I don't think the picture above is the same instrument. But the pictures I saw were many many years ago. There seem to be two or three layouts of 4/4 York CC tubas.
Jim Self's looks a completely different layout.
However I did buy the 4/4 CC of Bob Tucci that had been Mr. McDonald's. In todays sections the intonation would be really hard to justify. But the sound...

[Cassidy Stanhope]

The photo wont load for me, but i do think i have played this horn. if it is the one i think it is, i have the serial number

[WessCollette]

Episode 34 at the above link.

[Cassidy Stanhope]

the tuba that Jacobs is playing in the photo looks the same shape, and the timeline of owners and history with it checks out too, (after a bit of research i assume the horn stolen from Jonathan Baker is the same tuba) and it maybe somehow made its way back to Jonathan who then sold it to Thomas Allely. I played this horn for a week when I traveled to Brisbane to represent America in the States Honor Ensemble Program (they provided this tuba since i could not bring my personal horn on the plane). being a tuba history geek myself i had to take way too many pictures of the horn while i had it! i will attach a link to a folder with all of the photos i took of it (that does not include the ones that have 20 others that look exactly like it)

SERIAL NUMBER:117462(i think.. see picture, the last number is either a 2 or a 7 it looks like a question mark)

Thanks to everybody here, i have been searching to find the origins of this tuba for months, and i am more than happy about the amazing history of it!

P.S. how do i make google drive folders accessible for everyone?

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dhdsO ... yKxPjUQC1P" target="_blank