Water keys - Amado vs. lever type, maintenance & durabil

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:38 pm

All I want to know is which one is less likely to break and, maybe, easier to maintain.

(probably my shortest post ever!)

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Fri May 13, 2005 1:43 pm

I replaced the water keys on a couple of my horns with Amado's in the 70's... and never had a single hiccup, maintenance, brakage, or whatever. Just MHE (My Humble Experience).

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:35 pm

I've had to repair several Amado keys; mostly on trumpets (which seem to use them more than other instruments).

Mostly, the faults were jammed keys (open, repaired by disassembling and cleaning), broken springs (disassemble and replace) and plugged holes (they're not very large and can be plugged by loose "gunk"; again, disassemble, flush the horn, clean the waterkey parts, and reassemble).

Most of the Amado key models require a set of lockring pliers to remove the spring ring that holds the works together. It's always goot to have a spare supply of these, as they seem to be susceptible to breakage.

IMOHO, anyone who plays an instrument with any kind of waterkys should carry a bit of (yes!) duct tape with them should a waterkey (regardless of the type) fail.

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Fri May 13, 2005 2:56 pm

I carry electrical tape. Less room in the bag, less gunk on the horn, seals at least as well. Also good to hold a brace on the horn. Just run it a few loops around the tube, going on first one side then the other of the brace itself -- assuming the flange pulled away from the horn, not from the brace. If the brace pulled out of the flange, I run it around the two tubes the brace is supposed to connect. Less than perfect, but gets the job done. In fact, my old baritone horn has the entire valve section attached with elect. tape, and has for a couple of months. I need to get out the torch and solder it on (it arrived in two pieces from an e-bay sale -- SURPRISE!!), but I'm a little scared of soldering the leadpipe on so close to the valves. In the meantime, it plays beautifully with 5 elect. taped braces and tape to seal the leadpipe to the valve cluster.

_________________________________
Joe Baker, who the women find ... handy.

CJ Krause · Post by **CJ Krause** » Sat May 14, 2005 2:05 pm

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:26 pm

I have all amado water keys on my horns except for the tuning slides. Amado keys work fine if you OIL THEM! Just a drop of valve oil once a day or every other day will keep them in top shape. They last longer than lever keys, as long as you maintain them.

LOTP · Post by **LOTP** » Sat May 14, 2005 7:40 pm

"I detest Amado waterkeys because they get stuck if the horn sits for even 2 days."

I played my Courtois 3+1 Eb this afternoon for the first time in over SEVEN MONTHS. The Amado (from Dillon's) worked perfectly as did the Amado on my wife's Couesnon baritone.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:36 pm

Will wrote:They last longer than lever keys, as long as you maintain them.

I hadn't realized that Amado keys had been around long enough for that to be proven. I have operating original lever type waterkeys on instruments that are over 100 years old.

Did I replace the corks at any time? Yes, but it took all of 3-4 minutes and probably cost about a dime.

tubamirum · Post by **tubamirum** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:53 pm

The Amado w k is fine, the person who said to oil it is correct. I would also say that it doesn't let as much water out as a lever type, therefore just use it more often (before you need to)!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:26 pm

I found that on some horns, the traditional water key paraphenalia was in a bad place acoustically. To get an improvement on a couple of horns I just had to fill it in completely and dump water like a horn player. On a couple of others, I used Amados because there was less free space as a result, and that seemed to work. A couple of others were fine just as they were. Bottom line: if it ain't broke, play it!

Leland · Post by **Leland** » Sat May 14, 2005 11:36 pm

The reason why I'm asking is because fixing lever-type spit valves is the single most common repair I've had to do with our group, and it's getting on my nerves.

Old corks are no big deal. Broken springs are a mild hassle at most. Having the lever-screw-bracket assembly break loose from its soldered spot on the tubing during a gig is just plain debilitating (saw it happen to a player who was due to play a solo just minutes later). It's also so much easier to catch a lever on clothing and damage either the lever or the clothes.

Those are the reasons why I'm considering asking to specify Amado valves in our next set of instruments.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:45 am

Leland wrote:Those are the reasons why I'm considering asking to specify Amado valves in our next set of instruments.

A properly installed waterkey (of any type) should not spontaneously become detached from the supporting tube. FWIW, the Amados, since they stick out more, are easier to knock off a crook.

To properly install a lever-type waterkey saddle takes some time to fit the curvature of the saddle to that of the crook it's attached to. Careless manufacturers and repair techs settle for an approximate fit and fill the gaps with solder. Not very strong and a key attached that way will let go.

IOW, the lever-type waterkey has held up very well indeed when properly installed. Like anything else, if the work is slipshod, the results will be less than optimal.