leadpipe angle

[MaryAnn]

So how do you solve this one? I'm now remembering the horrid neck problems I had playing tuba before, because I need the leadpipe angle be very different than it is. I end up tipping my head back in order to get the right angle on the mpc, (just to get full contact) and it just kills my neck. With horn or trumpet or trombone, you just change the angle of the instrument. When I was playing that short run of british baritone, I was holding the bow end of the instrument way out from my body in order to get the leadpipe angle so I could play the thing. With a tuba, what do you do? I"d have to have the bottom bow under the chair to get the leadpipe angle where I need it to be. I don't want to be going through that neck pain again with this instrument. (BTW, a sousaphone bit is unlikely to help because I tend to have the tuning slide all the way in no matter what brass I am playing, to get up to pitch.)
I figured out the correct angle for my horn by just finding the angle where the buzz works for me with just the mouthpiece, and then made sure I had the horn at that angle. Which brought it off my leg and is now completely comfortable. Trumpet players, you'll see all kinds of angles within a section.

[windshieldbug]

Sometimes, use of a sousaphone bit (with corresponding tuning slide adjustment) between the mouthpiece and mouthpipe can work wonders. Sometimes not, but it would be worth trying to see if you can make an improvement in the angle by moving it around!

[EdFirth]

I've had this issue with just about every horn I've owned. I'm very long waisted and play a bit downstream. Most leadpipes end up south of my Adam's Apple even with the horn on my lap. My repair guy just buys a straight version of the given leadpipe and bends it so it lands right on my chops where I like it. There are lots of guys who can do it... and it's relatively inexpensive. Good luck with it. Ed

[scottw]

Would a playing stand help? I suspect it would.

[Art Hovey]

I have modified a lot of leapipes on my various Frankentubas to make them fit me, and I have sold a couple of good tubas because their leapipe angles were wrong for me, and they were too pretty to mess up.

Last year I tried to make an opinion poll on this website, asking what most tubists prefer, but I couldn't make it work. I sent a PM to Farah asking for help, but never got a reply.

Many manufacturers seem to believe that the mouthpiece should meet the face horizontally, and if that's not comfortable then too bad. Some even seem to think we should blow uphill, so water runs back into the mouthpiece!

Another solution is described in #5 in my Tiger Tuba commentary:

http://galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/Tiger/Tiger.html

That idea can work with any brass mouthpiece.

[GC]

Another old idea is what Wilfried Brandstötter did: a bend in the mouthpiece where the shank joins the cup. There are a couple of older posts about this on ToobNet. I wouldn't want to try doing it myself.

[PaulMaybery]

Wrestling with the tuba is counterproductive: wasting energy and causing body tension where there should be next to none. The only thing that I really believe works is a tuba rest. I have one from BBC that I use regularly. When adjusted properly you can get the mouthpiece to meet the chops exactly the way you wish without any undue effort. Ideally there should be no twisting of the next or un-natural tilting of the head. The head should sit directly above the spine and should not need to come forward like a turtle. (That has a way of closing off the throat). So many bad habits develop from bad tuba ergonomics.

[Charlie C Chowder]

I am a short guy at 5' 4". I have a 186 BBb that is to high to set on my bench. Nor can I reach the water key when in playing position. I use a tuba stand that lets the tuba set below my set and a string is tied to the water key and up to the paddle support to let me clear the water. I have 6 tubas that are all different, and the stand helps with them all. Plus I do not have to support their weight with my legs. The stand travels inside the tubas.

Charlie C. Chowder

[Lectron]

I've had adjustments done to the leadpipe to most my tubas..
having a MW Fasolt made to me as we speak....with specified angle on the leadpipe

Fasolt.jpg

[MaryAnn]

I already use a tuba stand. It doesn't change the leadpipe angle, just the height. The problem is that the mouthpiece does not even touch my chin if it is touching my upper lip. That is an angle problem, not a height problem. It seems I have two options, one of which is to have someone bend the mouthpiece shank and the other is to move the leadpipe (I like the idea of buying a new leadpipe, bending that, and replacing the old one.) I'm going to keep this tuba for as along as I'm going to play tuba and while I don't want to "mess it up" by moving the leadpipe, that may be my only solution. Obviously I can't change the angle on the mouthpiece shank myself, but how is it done anyway? we do have one local person whom I trust to do crazy things like that. He's not an official repair guy, but after a friend spent $1200 having a custom horn maker fix her valve problem with zero result, this guy said "oh, look at that thing" and fixed it in five minutes. Local tuba people have a high opinion of him too.

[roweenie]

Obviously I can't change the angle on the mouthpiece shank myself, but how is it done anyway? we do have one local person whom I trust to do crazy things like that.

Art Hovey already gave you the answer to this question:

http://galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/Tiger/Tiger.html" target="_blank

Scroll down to #5 (the second "#5", that is), and maybe show it to your repair person....

[MaryAnn]

I've had adjustments done to the leadpipe to most my tubas..
having a MW Fasolt made to me as we speak....with specified angle on the leadpipe

Fasolt.jpg

So how do you specify the angle on the leadpipe? I've got a reasonably good picture of just the mouthpiece on my face, holding my head in a comfortable position, but it still seems like it is going to be an iterative process, involving repetitive damage to the instrument. And it is so purdy right now.....

And...the rest of it is very comfortable for me. Lowering my right hand might make the valves harder to get at. I think maybe the shank angle thing is perhaps better overall, IF it does not alter the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece. I can still get a new PT64 to mess with. Has anyone had personal experience with changing the shank angle, and did it mess up the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece?

[Donn]

Has anyone had personal experience with changing the shank angle, and did it mess up the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece?

I haven't done it, but I can't see how it could help but change the mouthpiece at least a little.

My intuition says the best odds would be with a cut right at the throat, better than a bent backbore.

[MaryAnn]

Obviously I can't change the angle on the mouthpiece shank myself, but how is it done anyway? we do have one local person whom I trust to do crazy things like that.

Art Hovey already gave you the answer to this question:

http://galvanizedjazz.com/tuba/Tiger/Tiger.html" target="_blank" target="_blank

Scroll down to #5 (the second "#5", that is), and maybe show it to your repair person....

Yes, I saw that (thank you Art) but it requires changing my mouthpiece to a two piece, an expensive one, and then modifying that. I like my mouthpiece....not that a DE mouthpiece wouldn't work, but i have one that works, you see? I have seen bent mouthpieces and still wonder what bending the shank (whether one piece or two piece) does to the playing characteristics. (I research the hell out of things before I take action, must be the engineering background.)

[Rick F]

Maybe you could have a mpc bent slightly to accommodate the needed angle. That way you wouldn't affect your 'purdy' tuba, and maybe cheaper too. I know that Warburton has done this and I'm sure Doug Elliott could do this as well.

Here's a link to where Warburton advertises doing this:
http://www.warburton-usa.com/index.php/ ... outhpieces

[MaryAnn]

Thanks. I put in a call to Warburton and we'll see what they say.

[Lectron]

I've had adjustments done to the leadpipe to most my tubas..
having a MW Fasolt made to me as we speak....with specified angle on the leadpipe

Fasolt.jpg

So how do you specify the angle on the leadpipe? I've got a reasonably good picture of just the mouthpiece on my face, holding my head in a comfortable position, but it still seems like it is going to be an iterative process, involving repetitive damage to the instrument. And it is so purdy right now.....

And...the rest of it is very comfortable for me. Lowering my right hand might make the valves harder to get at. I think maybe the shank angle thing is perhaps better overall, IF it does not alter the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece. I can still get a new PT64 to mess with. Has anyone had personal experience with changing the shank angle, and did it mess up the playing characteristics of the mouthpiece?

Not easy to specify. I describe at what angles I prefer to hold the instrument and what angle I want to face the mouthpiece.
Most tubas will have the mouthpiece slightly upwards (same on your Mira if I recall), and that suits me rather bad.
Makes me tilt head down (or play "backwards"). Tilting head forward is crucial for breathing and also make me look over my glasses.

Unlike others, I make these adjustments to my instruments. I want them to fit me, no force myselves to fit them. That stopped working after hitting 40+

Having an adjustment made WILL leave marks, and that's also why I specified it as good as I could before making, and I will try it before lacquer if it need adjustments

[Art Hovey]

I sawed and soldered a Doug Elliott shank because I had an extra one. But it didn't have to be a two- or three-piece mouthpiece. it could be done with any brass mouthpiece, and possibly a plastic Kelly could be cut and stuck together with some kind of adhesive. That would be an inexpensive way to experiment and find what angle works best for you. I just guessed at the cut angle, rotated the shank half a turn and stuck it back together, and it worked. If I had found that I had bent it too much I could have un-soldered it, rotated the shank less than half a turn, and stuck it back together. That would make the mouthpiece closer to straight.
I still prefer a straight mouthpiece with an adjusted leadpipe, but that's not always possible.

[Tubaryan12]

What type of tuba stand do you use when playing? If you can't get the mouthpiece where you want it, the horn angle while playing may be an issue and maybe that can be addressed with a different stand.

[Art Hovey]

I like to rest the tuba either on my lap or on the chair, and I like to sit back on the chair.
For my a tuba stand would not work because it would move the bottom of the tuba forward several inches. I would have to scoot forward or else tilt the tuba back. The former would be tiresome and the latter would force me to blow uphill, and I don't like that at all.