24J 25J ???

[bort]

Sounds like a good candidate for a PVAK, or similar system not prone to wear.

[royjohn]

Lee Stofer wrote:

On EVERY Conn that has had all of the leaks repaired, so that the instrument is leak-free, dent-free, has no loose braces and has PROPERLY ALIGNED valves, the instruments have fabulous intonation and response.

Lee, I have a 20J and I'm curious as to what you usually need to do to get them playing right. Surely not every little peck needs to come out. How do you tell if the joints leak short of disassembling them all?

[Lee Stofer]

This is one of the problems in brass instrument making, getting the solder joints properly soldered. The first of these three Conn 20J's, when the bottom bow was removed, revealed that only about 15% of the internal joint area was soldered, which means that the joint had a serious leak. But, even where there is just enough of a thin ring of solder to make it seal vs having the joint fully soldered, there is a measurable difference in transmission of vibration from one piece to the next, or projection.

Short of disassembling the instrument, the best I can do is to do a water leak test, filling the instrument with water in the cleaning sink while it is standing upright, noting and marking any leak areas, and soldering them as well as possible. The best way to re-do solder joints is to disassemble, thoroughly clean, check for good fit and work the joint if necessary to ensure a close fit, tin the parts and solder it together.

One can get away with having a few small dents in their instrument, but I find that the fewer dents, the better it plays. A dent in the smaller tubing makes more of a difference than the same-sized dent in a larger tuba, hence mouthpipe dents are the most critical. Since the Conn short-action tubas / sousas have an oval port going into 1st valve, the mouthpipe must be removed to de-dent, but it is well worth the effort.

Also, many people do not seem to realize that the Conn 20-series tubas were designed to be played with a single Conn tuning bit. One can try to compensate by pulling the plenty-long main tuning slide, but they do not line-up intonation-wise without the bit, unless someone has re-fitted the instrument with a longer mouthpipe (and did it right). The Conn mouthpipes are not always of the correct size at the ferrule where they attach to the 1st valve port, so I sometimes have to clean out the excess solder and filth, work the mouthpipe on a mandrel to arrive at the correct taper and an excellent fit in the ferrule, and then solder it together. Having a uniform taper from the mouthpipe into the 1st valve port, as opposed to having a drop-off, solder globs and filth, makes a huge difference in how an instrument plays. Done correctly, a Conn 20-series tuba is as good as any other 6/4 BBb tuba out there. But, even a single broken, loose or missing brace can mess up how it plays. The short, fat pistons rarely get worn enough to need re-plating. I have seen only one 20J that actually needed a valve re-plating job.

Over 10 years ago, when asked about the possibility of Conn-Selmer making the 20-series tubas again, I understand that the Conn-Selmer representative told them that, to make it feasible to do so, they would have to do a production run of at least 300 20J's and would have to charge at least $13,000.00 apiece, to make them like they used to be made. If you have one of these instruments and it is in good condition, it is not a cheap instrument.

[TheGoyWonder]

Great sell on the leadpipe and solder joint services, Lee. I'm going to have to try the water test, hope the tub can handle the weight when I filler' up. Maybe I can look up the leadpipe for gunk with a dentist mirror in the 1st valve casing.

What do you use to take the bottom caps off - there's nothing grippy on them, and the slot is wide, long, shallow, and recessed. It's like it requires a special purpose BMW-style tool.

[TUbajohn20J]

....I really tire of hearing people bash them for having a flat F at the bottom of the staff....On EVERY Conn that has had all of the leaks repaired, so that the instrument is leak-free, dent-free, has no loose braces and has PROPERLY ALIGNED valves, the instruments have fabulous intonation and response...

Speaking of properly aligned valves on the Conn short action horns, is the small line in the valve stem supposed to line up evenly with the top of the cap? Does that mean it's perfectly aligned? Or does it matter if there is a tiny bit exposed above the cap. I did a test play both ways and couldn't tell a difference.

I know with the short actions if they're way off alignment it will sound stuffy and hard to play since the ports don't like up. Back in school there was a kid playing on a 22K with basically long action valves since all the corks were missing. I put some extra felts in there for him to get the short action and he couldn't believe how much better it played! Shame that some band directors these days could let that happen.

[Dan Tuba]

From my experience with Conn short action valves, the marks on the valve stems may or may not be reliable to properly align the valves.

[TUbajohn20J]

From my experience with Conn short action valves, the marks on the valve stems may or may not be reliable to properly align the valves.

This.

Makes it even more confusing!

[Heavy_Metal]

The Miraphone 98 (c. $17K and IN TUNE) sorta makes "bringing back the Conn 6/4 tubas" not feasible, eh?...particularly with used Conn's about as common as lawn jockeys in Alabama trailer parks.

Don't know about the rest of you, but, as much as I like my German tubas, I'd love to see something like this made in America again.

[GC]

The biggest irritant I ever had with the old Conns with the oval port crysteel valves was the way they often bounced when released. It made playing technical passages difficult, even when the valves where freshly reworked.

I miss my old 25J, though, and would still have it if it wasn't for the weight issue.

[TUbajohn20J]

The biggest irritant I ever had with the old Conns with the oval port crysteel valves was the way they often bounced when released. It made playing technical passages difficult, even when the valves where freshly reworked.

I miss my old 25J, though, and would still have it if it wasn't for the weight issue.

Maybe firm springs would help that.. I haven't noticed my valves bouncing when released.