Poll on Chinese built tubas

[Ken Crawford]

I was really hopeful that perhaps those that have visited these factories, that frequent these boards, could shed some light on the people behind building these instruments. Are they paid at a level that allows them to live in relative comfort? Are health and safety a priority in the factory? How much training do these workers receive before they put my tuba together? Are a large number of the workers highly experienced or is there a high level of turnover? When you visit a factory, is your freedom to take pictures limited? Are you discouraged from sharing your opinions about what you've seen in the factory?

Wessex has posted factory photos in the past and may still be up at his web/facebook page.

It looked like a spacious, modern facility to me.

No prisoner or child labor that I could ascertain.

Yes I've seen those photos. Spacious facility it would seem, but they don't tell you anything beyond that. I don't believe that Jinbao or others are using child or prisoner labor.

[Donn]

I was really hopeful that perhaps those that have visited these factories, that frequent these boards, could shed some light on the people behind building these instruments.

Interesting but complicated way to look at it. The evidence is going to be a little suspect, isn't it? In some cases, everyone concerned has a lot at stake in making it look good, because they all want to support sale of the product. In other cases, you may be able to find documentation from people who have the opposite intention, they want to make it look bad, or rather expose problems and, effectively, hurt sales (because we can politic all we want, but the people who run things there don't give a rat's behind about anything but sales.) This latter documentation will naturally be much rarer because someone has to risk their skin to make it.

And anyway, it may be a little beside the point. If conditions improve because China perceives that their economic bottom line is suffering, it won't be because they've been keeping an eye on tuba sales. When you buy a Chinese tuba, your money goes to much more than just a village full of tuba factory workers. It's a small part of a big thing, and for some of us anyway, it doesn't matter if the small part comes out of a little island of tolerance and respect for human dignity, it's still coming from China. Labor camps, Tibetans, organs harvested from executed prisoners, environmental catastrophe, territorial aggression in the Philippines and elsewhere ... and a picture of a smiling guy working on a tuba. It's a big country.

[Three Valves]

And anyway, it may be a little beside the point. If conditions improve because China perceives that their economic bottom line is suffering, it won't be because they've been keeping an eye on tuba sales. When you buy a Chinese tuba, your money goes to much more than just a village full of tuba factory workers. It's a small part of a big thing, and for some of us anyway, it doesn't matter if the small part comes out of a little island of tolerance and respect for human dignity, it's still coming from China. Labor camps, Tibetans, organs harvested from executed prisoners, environmental catastrophe, territorial aggression in the Philippines and elsewhere ... and a picture of a smiling guy working on a tuba. It's a big country.

The female sex slaves are kept in the basement, advertised and sold off on this very site!!

Then again, so are the Russian, Hispanic and Arab women!!

[Wyvern]

As someone who spends at least 4-5 weeks a year in China at the Jinbao factory let me say a little, although I don't want to get into political debate.

There is no child labour at the Jinbao factory, or any other brass factory that I have visited. The education system is excellent in China and in fact their teaching methods are starting to be copied in UK. Therefore employees at the factory are generally well educated. Jinbao seems an excellent company to work. There is very low turn-over of staff. I have been visiting regularly for the last two and half years and the same workers are in the tuba factory now at when I started going. Although some of the work is obviously hard (as it is in any brass factory), the general atmosphere is friendly with contented workforce. Worker and managers will joke with each other and with me. I will stress that as I am there all day for a whole week, I do see the real situation, and nothing "put on" special for my visit. The factory is clean and I have not seen anything to give me health and safety concerns. Masks are worn where there are noxious chemicals being used, or for dusty work such as polishing. The polishing room is well provided with extractors and there are safety notices in each workshop.

Jinbao has just invested in a new modern factory building which was just being moved into during my December visit. That is HUGE - one floor as big as two soccer fields. I was probably the first person to play tuba in the new building (my checking took place there) and found it has 2 second reverberation.

For salary, Jinbao workers are generously paid for China. Their working day is 8am to 6pm with two hour lunch break. A good lunch break is important in China.

For training, staff start on simple jobs and through apprenticeship work their way upwards. Most Wessex tubas are considered complicated and the factory know that I will not accept anything below our quality standards, so only the most experienced workers are entrusted.

I am continually working with factory on quality improvements every visit and they do have project to address problems one after the other, so I am sure you will see continued improvement.

The Jinbao factory was set up in the 1970's as a family firm. Father in his 80's is still active director, while son is the CEO. He takes a real pride in the company and is determined Jinbao will become the best brass factory in the world.

Although China has a communist government, most people there are firmly capitalist and all they want is to build a successful business or good career. They are no different from people in UK or USA with the same wishes and aspirations.

For pollution, yes it is bad as there are so many companies turning out smoke and far too many cars. At present China is really factory to the world, so it is not surprising it is producing so much pollution as we did at home in the past. However there is apparent commitment to try to reduce and China is investing heavily in re-newable energy.

[LoyalTubist]

You don't have to buy them on eBay and wait for delivery from China. Walmart is selling them online now. Seriously.

[MackBrass]

What exactly is the purpose of this post? Are you trying to educate the masses or is there a hidden agenda?

Anyone can make a claim about quality, price, political agenda and buy American. The reality is that we live in a world economy and not everyone can afford a 15k tuba made in Germany. At the same time there are those that can afford a 15k tuba but may choose a 2k tuba, does this matter? Does it really matter where it's made? As long as it makes the player happy and does the job who really cares.

Do the same poll on German made or American made horn and see the results. What are the real differences? There will always be those that will be accepting and those that no matter what will find some excuse to no accept no matter where something is made.

If you are against products made in China then get ready to get rid of about 80% of everything you own, good luck trying to buy "made in America: anymore.

[roweenie]

What exactly is the purpose of this post? Are you trying to educate the masses or is there a hidden agenda?

Anyone can make a claim about quality, price, political agenda and buy American. The reality is that we live in a world economy and not everyone can afford a 15k tuba made in Germany. At the same time there are those that can afford a 15k tuba but may choose a 2k tuba, does this matter? Does it really matter where it's made? As long as it makes the player happy and does the job who really cares.

Do the same poll on German made or American made horn and see the results. What are the real differences? There will always be those that will be accepting and those that no matter what will find some excuse to no accept no matter where something is made.

You seem to be missing the point (I hope). There is a difference, but not necessarily pertaining to quality or value. Sometimes, there's just more to the "big picture" than making a buck or getting a bargain.

If you are against products made in China then get ready to get rid of about 80% of everything you own, good luck trying to buy "made in America: anymore.

Yes, good luck indeed, and good luck to all those Americans that lost their jobs to people who will make those products for 1/10 of their salary (and will also be content to live with 1/10 of their standard of living, by order of their government).

[Donn]

If you are against products made in China then get ready to get rid of about 80% of everything you own, good luck trying to buy "made in America: anymore.

It's a challenge, but you can be as rigorous as you want, and in many cases you will end up with goods that are durable and generally a pleasure to have around. High end stuff, or just old fashioned, parts of the market that are slower to cast off the skilled workforce and run to the cheapest place of manufacture. It's thin times for some of them, often more because of marketing/distribution issues in my opinion than theoretical competitiveness. Year by year there are fewer, but you can still buy goods made in the US - and Canada, Mexico, Italy, Ethiopia etc. I think that's a good thing whatever we may think about China, and sincerely hope we don't ever come to a point where we make nothing and import everything from China.