Question for anyone who's played Chicago the Musical

[BopEuph]

So I've played this show for about four different productions in varying professional versions. And I've never caught this before, and wondering if anyone knows the answer.

In "All I Care About," after the big intro and Billy Flynn says "hit it," is that supposed to be a switch to bass? I just assumed the arranger wrote in the wrong octave.

[tclements]

ORIGINALLY, this was a doubling book; string bass & tuba. As this is a fading double, they split out the book. If it LOOKS like it is an octave too high, it is ....

[Three Valves]

If it LOOKS like it is an octave too high, it is ....

That is exactly how I feel!!

[BopEuph]

This is the old doubling version. I should market myself for this show more, since I'm one of the few guys that has this skill my age!

But I haven't played tuba in about six months, and the gig is about six weeks away, so I'm just going through the show now to get it back on my chops. I was playing along with the West End version, and heard the switch...I've always just played that part on tuba in a more sensible octave. Then again, even if it IS meant to be a switch, that's awfully quick when being squeezed in that little cubby!

[BopEuph]

I'm from the very tail-end of the old-school tuba/bass doublers (nurtured as one by my old-school high school band director)

When I moved to Orlando, I introduced myself to the top upright bass player (Charlie Silva), and when he heard that I got a degree in euph performance, he told me his advice was to acquire a tuba and get that under my fingers.

I've come to learn that in the '90s, it was an expected double in the Orlando area due to Disney and the transplanted NOLA guys, but I'm the only one my age that does it now. It's kind of cool to have the skill, but people are changing the doubling requirements to a trombone/tuba double making my skill almost moot now.

[BopEuph]

Ouch. Kind of disappointing; the tuba book isn't very demanding. Just a few tricky things if my chops are out of shape. For me, it's mostly low F and E, most everything else pops out right when it's supposed to.

[tubamlb]

Hi
I played the show when it first came out , String Bass & Tuba , the string bass part is always written a octave higher than the tuba part

[BopEuph]

the string bass part is always written a octave higher than the tuba part

I understand that; my question is a specific number where the switch isn't specified, yet the part goes an octave higher (and right on a page turn in all places). I've just been playing it down the octave but heard in a recording the switch to bass.

[KevinMadden]

I played a version arranged for Royal Caribbean (under supervision of the CHICAGO New York people) with separate tuba and bass books for years. I think I played Billy Flynn mostly in the high octave with occasional droppings down for repeated accuracy's sake. The bass book was Tacet for that number.

[BopEuph]

I think I played Billy Flynn mostly in the high octave with occasional droppings down for repeated accuracy's sake. The bass book was Tacet for that number.

Huh, you actually played it as written? I always take it down because it just sounds too thin in the context of that sweet sounding music. Nobody's ever said anything, but the recordings I've been shedding along to had the switch to bass. I tried to find it on YouTube, but the two official recordings on YouTube keep it on Tuba played down an octave. So I guess I'll find out when I get the advance book what they want in this particular tour.

[eupher61]

There were several places the MD said the parts were wrong, in the Velma company book at the time. He changed a couple of instrument switches. I'm thinking that was one wher he told both of us to play--it was the written double book.

[dderatz]

The Samuel French Web site lists it as a double, and the book I have is a double. http://www.samuelfrench.com/p/2746/chicago" target="_blank

[BopEuph]

Interesting. The audio sample had the tuba playing in the higher octave, though it sounded like a synth (not even a sample).

It just seems weird to stay above the B-flat for lengthy periods of time when you're just playing the feel, and not soloing. Off the top of my head, I think it even hits a high C-flat over the staff while just playing a 2-feel.

[Lee Stofer]

It has been several years now since I've seen the book, but I've played it as the original doubling of string bass and tuba. I had the string bass on an old Hamilton bass stand, and a York recording CC tuba, which was all (besides me) that would fit into the box on stage. If the instruments are on stands and you're playing from the doubling book, it is possible to make a very quick switch, although it is still a challenge. I'm sure I made the switch to bass at that point. I doubt that stratospheric tuba playing was part of the composer's intent. My impression is that the bass book for this show is much more tuba-intensive, and that the string bass parts are really pretty easy and secondary to the tuba parts, which are where you can really fire-up the passion and excitement in the band.

Regarding the comments about tuba and bass doubling being a "fading doubling," I'd suggest that if you get an opportunity to double, or just play string bass somewhere, take it. Playing string bass (and applying yourself) will make you a better tuba player, and likely open the door to additional gigs.

[BopEuph]

That's what I thought. Looks like the professional recordings go either way; some make the switch, some don't. The original recording has the tuba playing in the written octave, which does sound weird. Honestly, I think that--unless the advance book specifies--I'm going to stay on tuba and play down the octave. I've learned it's best to not bring it up to the MD, anyway. They start using a more critical ear when you ask questions like that.

The only time I was on an official bandstand was the Trepak setup--which I'm guessing is the one you were in if it was that small. I leaned the bass in the back right corner when not playing, and the tuba on its bell in the front left. I swear, that section must have been like four feet square--I don't think I could have fit stands in it!

I'm actually primarily a bassist, making up roughly 75% of my annual income. Tuba was fairly common when I first moved to Orlando, but I see less of it, and I'm the only guy in Florida that I know that still doubles and is not near early retirement. I'm actually a "just get by" tuba player...I don't have anywhere near the facility I did on euphonium, but I can certainly play jazz/funk basslines. Hungarian March--forget about it!

[Three Valves]

I've learned it's best to not bring it up to the MD, anyway. They start using a more critical ear when you ask questions like that.

My co-workers never learn this!! (Non-music industry but it applies everywhere)

[BopEuph]

My roommate on a cruise ship taught me it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

Last year I played bass for Phantom. There was a miscommunication, and I don't know where it was, but I thought the C extension wasn't required, and there were low C's all the way through the book. I asked on TalkBass, and someone mentioned that he drop tuned his bass for Showboat, and was showing the MD how he worked around it, and he was replaced by intermission with a bassist with a C extension. I bought a Hipshot drop tuner and didn't tell anyone, and the MD loved the low C's my bass was pushing out. And he was very specific on the bass (apparently he's famous in NYC for riding the bassist hard, which I definitely got more attention than anyone else in the pit). It was a valuable lesson.

[KevinMadden]

I think I played Billy Flynn mostly in the high octave with occasional droppings down for repeated accuracy's sake. The bass book was Tacet for that number.

Huh, you actually played it as written? I always take it down because it just sounds too thin in the context of that sweet sounding music. Nobody's ever said anything, but the recordings I've been shedding along to had the switch to bass. I tried to find it on YouTube, but the two official recordings on YouTube keep it on Tuba played down an octave. So I guess I'll find out when I get the advance book what they want in this particular tour.

I went back and took a look at the book I used on the ship. I think it should definitely be on tuba, unless there's more banter between the end of the intro and "Is everybody here?... Hit it" in the real version than the 90 minute version we played, there'd no way be enough time to switch instruments, and the intro is in the right octave for tuba. I would take the line leading to the high Cb down and the first arpeggio to high Eb would probably be down (unless I felt particularly daring). In our version the last verse (after "Physical love ain't so bad either") is down in an appropriate octave, so it made a nice contrast to the first verse in the higher octave.

hope this helps, it's a fun show. And the view's not too bad either! (As we told new musos at their first show, "no matter how comfortable you think you are, KEEP YOU EYES ON THE MUSIC! )

[BopEuph]

Heh, I've done this show a number of times, once on a failed tour with West End performers. In both revival cast recordings, the tuba comes down the octave (though I think I might have heard a switch to bass in one), and the original cast recording has a very able tuba player hitting every written note. I'm going to work on getting more accuracy on the upper range, but I've been playing that down the octave. By the way, I peeked at the MD's score once, and I recall an instrument playing an octave lower than the written range on tuba in a section of the number...I think it was bass clarinet?

As for paying attention--I practically have the entire show memorized, as I've probably performed it around fifty times! My advice is to memorize the book!

Unrelated: I'm subscribed but it's not going to my email, including my spam folder. Weird.