Boosey and Hawkes Imperial Sousaphone help.

[bh2001]

I've just managed to acquire a Boosey & Hawkes Imperial Sousaphone, made during the sixties. I can't find much information but I would assume that it is pretty much the same as the Besson sousaphones. What I need help with is that I need to get a new neck and tuning bits for it but I don't know what will be the best fit. The measurement of the neck tenon is .685" and it is loose even when the ferule is fully tightened, I think that means that .688" would fit better. This would, I believe, give me the option of either a Yamaha neck or one made for a Conn 20/22k. I am in Australia and would have to get anything from over seas so I want to get it right before I order. In the meantime is there a good to get the loose neck to stay put while I'm playing rather than holding it? If anyone has better info or some advice I would be very grateful.
Thanks

[bh2001]

I'll get onto the calipers, that's a good tip. The original neck is right angle so if the size is right the Conn could be better.
Thanks also for using the "s" as in realise, we also like to add "u" into words like color - colour but then shorten every word possible in general conversation.

[imperialbari]

If you search the index of my Yahoo-based brass gallery for

Besson BBb sousa

you will find 3 entries. Two of these show instruments with leadpipes.

Address in my signature.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

If a given available neck would fit your ergonomic needs, but sits slightly loose, the solution may be very simple.

My 1928 Conn 26K Eb sousaphone came with its apparently original and undamaged silver plated neck, which fits well and sounds good even if the bits are modern Conn’s.

My 1927 Conn 40K BBb sousaphone came with a used modern Conn neck that had a too loose fit. As I also have a 1946 Conn 28K Eb with a damaged neck, I bought some new Conn necks at an eBay sale. Their tenons are heavily lacquered, and they sit almost too stiffly in the slotted screw-tension receivers of all 3 lower necks.

The neck giving the best results with the 40K is the old neck (from the 26K), which is heavier and slightly shorter than the modern necks. So the two Eb’s, both silver plated, will have to do with the modern lacquered necks.

Which lacquer to use is beyond me, but the said modern Conn tenons feel like the lacquer is fat and tending towards a sticky feel within the lower neck receivers.

Klaus

[bh2001]

I'm glad there is such a wealth of knowledge on this forum. I do have the neck that came with the instrument. From the Klaus' pictures of a Besson horn it does seem to be very similar,if not the same. The valve slides all look exactly the same loops and arrangement. The problem is the neck I have is loose and the lyre holder is stuffed. I can put new lyre holder on it easy enough, I can solder well enough to do that. I have sourced some calipers and will post some pictures showing measurements. I could try using some very thin brass foil to wrap the neck so it fits tighter in the receiver. Teflon tape worked but didn't last.

[bh2001]

There is a possible repair shop about an hour away and if this is going to require the kind of surgery you were describing I think I'll get it over there. I do like to dabble with repair work.

Here are some pictures:
The Sousaphone


The engraving


Valve Section


The Neck


Measurements


Receiver - screw tightened

[imperialbari]

i don’t know whether the Conn-type of routing the airway through sousaphone valves was originally patented and licenced to other US makers.

But until Böhm & Menil made York Master sousaphones, all European piston sousaphones had valve blocks that apart from the direction of the knuckles and the routing of the tubing were lifted off the top action tubas from their respective makers.

B&H/Besson even went so far with their non-compensating valve blocks for tubas that the 1st and 3rd pistons were identical and stocked as spare parts under the same number.

Klaus

[bh2001]

Thanks for the tips, I think I better visit the repair shop.

Klaus, that's very interesting. Should the valves in my sousaphone be a match for an Imperial tuba of the same age?

Bloke, do you mean "interesting" that they use the same valve setup for both sousaphone and tuba or is there something else?

[imperialbari]

Thanks for the tips, I think I better visit the repair shop.

Klaus, that's very interesting. Should the valves in my sousaphone be a match for an Imperial tuba of the same age?

No. Imperial BBb tubas were compensating with long pistons and extra ports in the 3 top valves.

The non-compensating sousaphone valves equal the valves of the second line non-compensating BBb tubas. I am not sure what these were called back then, as very few apparently have survived. Maybe they were called Regent.

The newer New Standard sousaphones had the sloped buttons and caps, but still were non-compensating like the Westminster second line BBb tubas.

Why the sousaphones were named like the Class A instruments, while they had valves like the Class B instruments, is beyond me. Maybe a marketing trick.

Klaus

[bh2001]

That is indeed odd.
Would a Besson sousaphone made in the 1990s be one of the New Standard sousaphones?

[imperialbari]

No, you will find the post-Imperial-New-Standard Besson sousaphone models, if you search my gallery index for

Besson low conical brasses illustrated in a circa 1985 catalogue

Klaus

[bh2001]

Thanks Klaus, that is a great gallery. Do you know if there was much difference between 1985 catalogue 798 sousaphone and the ones produced in the 1990s? The guy I got my Imperial from also had a 90's Besson but they were in similar condition and mine was cheaper and I felt it sounded a little better although I played it second and being a trombone player my embouchure may settled a bit by then.

[imperialbari]

I have no specific knowledge about more recent British sousaphones.

Without doing research now I seem to remember two variants in the valve tubing. One had the tubing away from the player, the other had the tubing towards the player. Technically very close, as the valve block just was turned around and the 1st and 3rd valve tubings then were switched.

When the two variants were made I don’t know. I don’t think they were made simultaneously.

Klaus