Decent BBb horns for commercial music?

[Uncle Markie]

BobEuph -
Say hello to Pat Doyle for me when you pay your rent!

In response to some posters - the 10J is a little gem of a tuba, although it can't be pushed for very much sound. The examples I've tried are remarkably in-tune too. Good ones go for good money; most of them are school beaters.

For those who care: Ron Raffio opened and held down the chair in the current NYC production of Chicago for several years on his one-piece King 1240 - three valves I think, and sounded great as he always does. The original production's tuba/bass player was the late Bill Stanley (old friend) who could play anything with valves, had time like a clock and never missed a chord change in his life. I think he played an old Alex CC.

12J tubas seem to turn up more frequently than the 5J tubas - the 4th valve functions as what Dave Gannett used to refer to as his "octave key" - meaning he only used it to get from E natural down to the fundamental and most of the time played it as a 3-valve tuba. And quite well, thank you. During my time in Orlando Dave was playing a 2J CC, although he later switched to a large Conn BBb sousaphone. The stand-up routine kinda forces that issue.

The Olds 0-99 (also the Olds 0-991, 0-994, and Bach Mercedes and Reynolds - all the same horn) can still be found for reasonable $$. Bach bought the Olds tooling went Norlin went out and made a few of these. Walter Sear consulted on the horn and got them to make all the slides double-draw. It is the essentially the same valve section from their sousaphones. I did pretty well with one of these in HS and successfully auditioned for college on it. It had a nice sound too.

I just sold my King 2341; my horn was one of the first made and had intonation issues. I wouldn't recommend that axe for stand-up - you'll get hunched back.

Is Claude Kashnig still around Orlando? Maybe he could get horn of yours working. 12J replacement parts are readily available - don't waste time pushing dents out of things than can be easily replaced.

Mark Heter

[BopEuph]

BobEuph -
Say hello to Pat Doyle for me when you pay your rent!

Will do! I see him quite a bit, since I'm actually renting the guest house, and we have been doing occasional shows together.

In response to some posters - the 10J is a little gem of a tuba, although it can't be pushed for very much sound. The examples I've tried are remarkably in-tune too. Good ones go for good money; most of them are school beaters.

Speaking of which, isn't there a CC 4J as well? I think that's the model that Jay Mueller plays, and I know it's a CC. But I also hear about the 4J being a BBb. So I get confused with some of the older Conn model numbers.

For those who care: Ron Raffio opened and held down the chair in the current NYC production of Chicago for several years on his one-piece King 1240 - three valves I think, and sounded great as he always does. The original production's tuba/bass player was the late Bill Stanley (old friend) who could play anything with valves, had time like a clock and never missed a chord change in his life. I think he played an old Alex CC.

That's good to know! I definitely am not looking to drop a lot of money anyway; I have a rule that any instrument purchased needs to make its money back in one year. I might make about 3-5K a year on the tuba...but my Kay bass has paid DIVIDENDS. As for Raffio, I was about to send him an email about a year ago about the possibility of needing a sub if I considered moving up to that area, but out of nowhere I got super busy and haven't had a break since.

I just sold my King 2341; my horn was one of the first made and had intonation issues. I wouldn't recommend that axe for stand-up - you'll get hunched back.

I was actually thinking of this. Thanks for the heads up.

Is Claude Kashnig still around Orlando? Maybe he could get horn of yours working. 12J replacement parts are readily available - don't waste time pushing dents out of things than can be easily replaced.

He is, but I think he's doing a lot less. The horn actually works well, and I have another beater that would be good for spare parts, but I figured it might have been a dud if I can't pop out the low notes as readily. It makes me feel better that this isn't just a "me" thing, but I feel like, for my work, playing on exactly the center of the beat is the most important part of what I do. And I can't do that on the lowest 4-5 notes of the horn. My buddy did a great job getting the 3rd slide to move (it was so bad I would almost always pinch my hand trying to force it out just to remove water), but the alignment just needs more work. I've been thinking it might be a better job suited to Pat Gulotta, since I want those upper slides to work like trombone slides.

[Donn]

Speaking of which, isn't there a CC 4J as well?

I hope cjk doesn't mind if I copy his inventory from several years ago:

2j = Olds 099 in CC, 16ish inch bell
3j = small Conn CC, 18 inch bell
4j = Olds 099, 16ish inch bell
5j = small Conn BBb , 18 inch bell

[TUbajohn20J]

Yep! Conn 2J was the CC version of 4J. Great horns! Strangely enough, the 4J I played in middle school had an 18" bell instead of the more common 16".. And still clearly said 4J on the bell. Always thought that was interesting.

[TUbajohn20J]

In response to some posters - the 10J is a little gem of a tuba, although it can't be pushed for very much sound. The examples I've tried are remarkably in-tune too. Good ones go for good money; most of them are school beaters.

They can be pushed as much as the 12J, if not slightly more. Because of the 10J 's slightly bigger .695 bore instead of the 12J's .656 bore.
If you're used to the 12J though, you won't have any problems with the 10J. There are some real good ones on eBay right now.

[jeopardymaster]

Based on a quick look I didn't see mention of the Holton Harvey Phillips horns above -- 330 and 331 designations as I recall. They aren't my cup of tea, but I've heard some guys sound pretty good on them. Perhaps a little more open down low than the Conn 2J and 4J. Do any of you guys have feedback on those models?

[TUbajohn20J]

Based on a quick look I didn't see mention of the Holton Harvey Phillips horns above -- 330 and 331 designations as I recall. They aren't my cup of tea, but I've heard some guys sound pretty good on them. Perhaps a little more open down low than the Conn 2J and 4J. Do any of you guys have feedback on those models?

I don't think I have ever even seen one of those in person! Not saying they're bad horns, but I heard Mr. Phillips didn't even really approve of them. They look good, have a good sized bore and bell..So I don't see the problem with them. I'd have to play one to see though. I've never seen one for sale either.