vinegar + salt

Jonathan Cruz · Post by **Jonathan Cruz** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:27 pm

A friend of mine uses salt in addition to vinegar to clean gunk and corrosion off of valves. have any of you used salt before in your cleaning? From what I saw, it cleaned it up pretty nice.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:32 pm

I have used a paste of salt and vinegar to clean raw brass. It seems to do a good job, but I would avoid using it on valve pistons because it is a little abrasive.

TubaJulio · Post by **TubaJulio** » Sat May 14, 2005 6:52 pm

Toothpaste works wonders. I use it on my valves. and they still work.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun May 15, 2005 12:47 am

mandrake wrote:Think about it: salt (assuming that you mean Sodium chloride in this case) will dissolve in the vinegar (which is a solution of acetic acid, CHCOO, and Hydronium). When the Sodium chloride would dissolve, one would end up with Sodium and Chlorine ions. The result might be CHCOOCl and NaOH (a base). I don't know about CHCOOCl, but the Sodium hydroxide would stay dissolved, leaving you with a basic solution competing with an acidic solution (the remaining CHCOO).

Assuming that nothing else happens (it probably does) then you end up with a solution which has a pH of about 7. I can't definitively say, but adding salt might neutralise the solution - otherwise it would strengthen it. I doubt that the result would be an alkaline solution. Try it if you aren't afraid of something bad happening. I would first try it on a small part of the instrument (remove a slide or something). If you get the solution all over the instrument and it starts causing problems, then you're in for an adventure trying to rinse out the instrument in a hurry.

That has to be some of the strangest chemistry I've heard in a long time.

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Sun May 15, 2005 2:00 am

bloke wrote:So, if I just munch on a bunch of these each time before I play, the instrument will stay nice and clean?

The instrument should be fine; I'd be more worried about the player -- I've heard those things may cause "rind-stones" (bet those hurt!

) ...

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sun May 15, 2005 3:08 am

Not to sure about cleaning tubas but I understand it is the major component along with spices that work great for making pickles.

Daniel C. Oberloh
www.oberloh.com

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Sun May 15, 2005 7:44 am

Like the bag sez, "Let the Party Begin"!!.....

I use to live up north and dispite my best efforts to scrub & rinse my car after snow storms with salted roads, I still had every car turn to rust. As a chemist...I can say that corosives and metals shouldn't be mixed except under very controlled conditions. You can dilute it, but it's still there!

dm "who doesn't think salt on any wound is a good idea" morris

dmmorris · Post by **dmmorris** » Sun May 15, 2005 4:09 pm

Yeah...that'd help. Prolly make it smell better too!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue May 17, 2005 1:03 am

mandrake wrote:Are you saying that it's strange, or that it doesn't hold up? I AM only in Grade 12 ...

What I see is a mixture of NaCl and CH3COOH in water is this:

NaCl, being a strong electrolyte, dissociates nearly completely into Na+ and Cl- ions.

CH3COOH, being a weak acid, dissociates only partially, yeilding some H+ ions, and some CH3COO- ions, but mostly staying around as undissociated acetic acid molecules.

So, what you get is the more or less the same effect as a very dilute HCl solution. But no real chemistry as such going on beyond the dissociation effects.

At least that's my guess. Professional opinions welcome!