Hirsbrunner HB-2 questions

[bort]

How does the HB-2 compare to things like the Rudy Meinl 4/4 or Miraphone Bruckner, in terms of size, sound, etc.?

I'm starting to consider options that are slightly smaller and a better fit for me than my Willson. As much as I love this tuba, I think I simply do better with something a little smaller and I sound better when working to push it hard to play bigger, than use a bigger tuba and try to control it more to act a bit smaller.

I used to own a Rudy 4/4 (not interested in another) and I've played a few Bruckners before (great tubas, feel a little small to me). It's been many years since I've tried a HB-2, so please help refresh my memory.

[barry grrr-ero]

Bort, it's been decades since I've tried a HB-2, but they always struck me as being seriously good tubas. I certainly wouldn't pick a Bruckner over an HB-2. I'm not crazy about the Willson 3050 or their strange Eb tuba. That's just me. They make good tank traps though.

[oedipoes]

I have played a Rudy 4/4 CC back to back with two different HB2's.
Back then, I wanted a contrabass tuba with 5 valves, and the Rudy 4/4 BBb I have had only 4 valves.
One of the Hirsbrunners was for sale.
So I tried the 5-valve Rudy 4/4 CC to see if I disliked the response, compared to the 4-valve BBb.
And I compared that with the Hirsbrunner to see if I liked that one better than either of the Rudy's...

Result for me:
I liked the Rudy 4/4 CC as much as the BBb, so I had a 5th valve added, with very good results.
The Hirsbrunner was a very good instrument on it's own, but felt a bit smaller in size and sound (with me playing of course).

Just my 0.01EUR

[Tuba1985]

Dear Bort,

I have an old, fully restored (see my thread) Hirsbrunner HB-2 rotary. it is a wonderful instrument with a pretty good scale and a sound which is much bigger and darker than one would think. I played Tschaikowsky and Bruckner on it and had no problems.
I didn't like the Bruckner, tried it once and it was just not my taste.
Concerning the Rudy 4/4 CC, I was a this shop (it's just 1 hour from where I live) several times to try CC tubas and found the 3/4 CC to be much better than the 4/4 model. The sound was a bit more elegant but still round and dark, but the intonation and response where much better on the 3/4.

Just my opinion

[Lee Stofer]

I have a Hirsbrunner 5-rotor CC here in the shop for sale at present. Once I had cleaned it up and had done some restorative valve work, I took it to a rehearsal for an extended play-test. To me, both physically and sound-wise, it is a little smaller and more compact than the 4/4 Rudolf Meinl CC, and has a very distinct and pleasant tone color. It is typical for these instruments to have more difficult response in the low Bb - low G area, but this one is rather good. Upon initial playing, I found the A and Ab, although in-tune and sounding good, felt as if the slots were not as deep and secure as on my CC, but after playing it for half an hour I was just playing it and was not having any difficulties with it whatsoever. It was playing very well with no slide-pulling, either.

These are exceptional instruments. If you are looking to purchase one, grasp the stop arms and try moving them from side-to-side. If there is lateral play or end-play they will not play their best, and will need to visit a shop that is able to correct this condition. Even very old rotor tubas can be made to play very well again if the rotors are tight and smooth.

[bort]

Thank you all for the thoughtful comments, this is very helpful to me!

Also, in terms of size (of sound), how might it compare to a Miraphone 188? The 188 is kind of my benchmark for just about everything with CC tubas. I moved away from the 188 because I wanted something with a slightly larger sound... but have had a very difficult time finding something that has all of the things I like about the 188.

The Rudy 4/4 was close, but I totally agree, it didn't quite have the "fire" of the Rudy 3/4 (which is too small for what I want, but an amazing tuba). The Bruckner is also pretty close to what I want, and I do like it a lot... but there's something about the 188 that still grabs me more than the Bruckner.

Many people have also suggested that I check out an Alexander 163, particularly a newer one. That's also high on the list, but I haven't had an opportunity to play one in a few years. I'm sure it would solve a few of my issues with the 188, but I'm not sure what new issues might come up.

Thanks again for the help. I'd better stop writing before I say "188" again, wasn't this supposed to be about the HB-2?

[arpthark]

Just get a 188 already!

Kidding aside, I think the HB-2 would be a great choice. I've fooled around on one for a while along with an HB-21 piston.

Typical caveat of watch for plastic valves, make sure Eb below the staff isn't flat, and take a while to get used to a fuzzy low Bb-Gb.

I believe the rotary version played a bit better than the piston. I would say both seemed louder/bigger than my friend's 188, but that might be because the bell is closer to your head.

[tclements]

I've played (and used) almost every 4/4 CC imaginable (Mirafones, B&S, Rudys, HB2Ps, Willson, Alexander, Gronitz'). Without a doubt, the HB2 is superior to anything else I've used & played. I can use it in quintet, pit, solo, orchestra, or jazz band. It is by far the most versatile 4/4 CC I can imagine. I have owned (and sold) 3-4 of these throughout my career, and I have ALWAYS regretted the sales. The one I currently own, is the LAST one Peter H built himself (for me), before he retired. The other instruments mentioned here are all EXCELLENT and I am NOT casting aspersions on ANY of the tubas discussed. I am just voicing an opinion after 35+ years of professional playing. If you are ever in the San Jose area, I'd invite you to drop by and give 'er a honk!

[bort]

Thank you all for the public and private replies to this question. I appreciate all of the input!

[barry grrr-ero]

I think Tony's advice is real sound. These just feel and play like versatile tuba gods.

[doublebuzzing]

How does the HB21 compare to the HB2?

[michael_glenn]

I recently sold my rotary HB-2. It was a great horn, but unfortunately was not the right fit for me. In terms of size, it is very similar to that of the Miraphone Bruckner, so much so that you can use the same Miraphone gig bag for either horn. It is really more so of a compact 5/4 horn when you consider the bore, and the size of the bottom bow on both sides. It makes a really pleasant and colorful sound. They can be a little picky in terms of mouthpieces, but I found good results on funnels and geib cups. Intonation and response can vary from horn to horn, so it would be best to give any of them a test run first. I find the Bruckner to be a little bit easier to play, but the Hirsbrunner has a bit more color in my opinion.

[highsierra]

If you can find a Rudy 4345 rotary tuba to try, it may be a possibility for you. I have been playing mine for about 12 years in every conceivable situation and haven't found another similar size rotary tuba that I would replace it with...the sound, intonation and response are truly great.....



Peace,

[bort]

YES, that 4345 is just about perfect. I talked to Lee at length about it last year, sounds like a great possibility, just not in my $10k budget.

[bort]

Quite a divide in opinions.

Very much considering a Bruckner, too. I was blown away by the one I tried at BBC last month.

[Musical_Eagle]

Bort,

If you are still looking for an American made rotary CC, there is a King Rotary CC at Baltimore Brass if you are interested. http://www.baltimorebrass.net/index.php?cat=5" target="_blank

[Billy M.]

Oh boy, here we go again!

Russ, if you want to trade that 4345 for a well loved, very good 1291, let me know.

[bort]

Oh boy, here we go again!

Haha, I know. But the way I look at it, you gotta keep going until you get it right. And let's be realistic here, it's easier to change the tuba than it is to change the player.

Musical_Eagle, thanks for the heads up! I thought about that one for a while... But I have decided that I want to stick to more modern-build tubas. I think I am over the quirks, repairs, and inherited problems of older tubas now.

Looks like a 188, Bruckner, or newer Alex 163 are leading the list right now, in no particular order yet. Thanks for the help everyone!

[Tom Gregory]

The HB2 Lee Stofer has is great! Never played a RM4/4 I liked as
much.
I play a 3050 myself and love it. I also just bought a GB 188 in the fall and to honest, have difficulty deciding which CC to play some gigs.
I really like the RZ version of the 3050. Sorry it's not working out.

[bort]

Thanks! The Willson is great, for sure, just unfortunately seems too big for me to get comfortable with. Too bad Willson doesnt make a smaller rotary CC tuba.