Please identify this old B&S CC 4-valve tuba

[sidenius]

Just bought this but the previous owner could'nt tell me the model name and exact year of manufacture of this B&S CC 4-valve Kaiser Tuba.
I've googled for B&S Markneukirchen serial numbers without result and I've sent email to B&S Markneukirchen without getting an answer.
So - maybe someone here can identify it?
Photo of the horn and the leadpipe with serial number (#252563) attached

B&S Tuba (360x640).jpg

b&s leadpipe (640x360).jpg

Bertil

[imperialbari]

With both ends of the push rods having ball-&-socket joints I would say it is from the later end of the GDR period, maybe 1985. But that model was not in the B&S catalogue from that year.

It has one non-standard feature for B&S tubas, as the leadpipe enters from the side into 1st rotor with the 1st loop sitting on top like the 5th valve loop on F-tubas from that maker. I have seen that feature on two B&S 4 valve F-tubas made to order for the young tubists in the boys’ guard band of the Tivoli Gardens. The purpose was to get a low-set leadpipe.

Is this tuba pitched very sharp since the tuning slide is pulled that much?

(Fra Odder?)

Klaus

[bort]

Possibly an older "tall" PT-4?

[daktx2]

The routing of the slides looks a lot like the "tall" PT-4, but yours might have a smaller bell than 19 inch ones that were exported to the US. And most of those had 5 valves. The closest match I've seen is the five valve Musica stenciled B&S that Bloke sold here a while back, but I'm not sure what B&S model it traces back to.


viewtopic.php?f=4&t=50245&p=432712

My late 80's PT-5 has the same ball and socket linkage that imperialbari pointed out, has a serial number pretty close to yours (21xxxx), and also has the "k" in the receiver, so I'll second his 1980's estimate on the date of manufacture.

To get a precise answer, the people to contact are Robert Tucci and TheBerlinerTuba. Both have access to the serial number list for B&S and have extremely friendly and helpful to me. Mr Tucci can be emailed through this forum, and TheBerlinerTuba can be either PMed or found on his facebook. (memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=128838 and memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=1136).

Good luck getting a final answer, and make sure to share it with us!

[sidenius]

With both ends of the push rods having ball-&-socket joints I would say it is from the later end of the GDR period, maybe 1985. But that model was not in the B&S catalogue from that year.

It has one non-standard feature for B&S tubas, as the leadpipe enters from the side into 1st rotor with the 1st loop sitting on top like the 5th valve loop on F-tubas from that maker. I have seen that feature on two B&S 4 valve F-tubas made to order for the young tubists in the boys’ guard band of the Tivoli Gardens. The purpose was to get a low-set leadpipe.

Is this tuba pitched very sharp since the tuning slide is pulled that much?

(Fra Odder?)

Klaus

Jeps - fra Odder
It seems rather high pitched. With that much pull it's pitched at 443!
But things can change since the receiver is to large for my mouthpieces and I'm waiting for my tech to make me an adapter.
I've just got back into tuba playing after some years off, so maybe the pitch could lower after some month of embouchure building?
If that does'nt lower the pitch I will have to have som modification made since I will otherwise not be able to play in tune with others playing in 440

[Robert Tucci]

Dear Sidenius,

My "B & S" records show 252XXX serial numbers on instruments built in 1990. Old factory catalogues show Model 3096 as a small four rotary valve CC-tuba.
Most of those instruments were hand-made.

Back in those days we had the "B & S" "Symphonic Model", an instrument with a short leadpipe, five rotary valves but with a larger 48 Cm bell essentially the same as the bell used on the Model 3103 BBb-tuba.

Bob Tucci