What the hell is a euphonium ?

[oldbandnerd]

I give up !!!!!! I have not found simple and concise way to explain to people what I play.

So....how do you answer the question


" YOU PLAY A WHAT ?"

I have tried all the usual explainations.
1. It's like a tuba but smaller......but then they just think I
play a small tuba. Not a good one. I know that technicaly
the euphonium is in the tuba family but I think that by
saying that it just confuses people.

2. It's like a bartitone but ...... well you know the rest. Most
people don't even know what a baritone is . This one doesn't
work either.

3. It's a tenor tuba ....... This would only make sense to fellow
brass player ,forget about trying to tell that to a
non-muiscian.

Dont, you just love the glazed over,deer in the headlight looks you get when start to explain the euphonium ?

I think I'll just carry this in my pocket and use it to answer the question.

[Kevin Miller]

For the total musical illiterate:
It's like a baby tuba that sort of sounds like a trombone.

SAT type answer:
Flute is to Piccolo as Tuba is to Euphonium

The "Bandie" answer:
This is what you get stuck on if you have no range on cornet/trumpet.

[Joe Baker]

The partially-left-handed bastard child of a trombone and a tuba. It makes sounds in the same range as a trombone, but sounds a little darker and "fuzzier", and looks kind of like a small tuba.
____________________________
Joe Baker, who knows this answer does not reflect the history of the instrument, but it should get the idea across.

[Rick F]

I usually tell them it's a tenor tuba -- an octave higher than tuba. Sounds similar to a trombone, but with a more mellow or darker sound. I also tell them it's very similar to a baritone horn, only with a more tapered bore... more conical. If they still look confused, I tell them:

A trombone is like a trumpet only an octave lower.
A baritone horn is like a cornet only an octave lower.
A euphonium is like a flugel horn only an octave lower.

But I like Kevin's answer for this too...

SAT type answer:
Flute is to Piccolo as Tuba is to Euphonium

The "Bandie" answer:
This is what you get stuck on if you have no range on cornet/trumpet

[JTJ]

I have taken to saying, to non musicians, that I play a small tuba, which everybody understands. That wierd stare you get when saying you play a euphonium just got to be too much.

I'm American player of a certain age, and I grew up calling it a baritone horn, which to me still is the best generic name for what we play. Now the British have preempted that name, and made it stick, for one variation on the instrument, so we're stuck as the English language internationalizes.

The problem is that to many American ears the word euphonium is, at best, faintly anachronistic and at worst, downright silly. I lean towards silly in my reaction to it -- to me "euphonium" reeks of some sort of wierd 19th century wordsmithing.

That said, it's an American problem, and we should probably just get over it.

John

[Rick Denney]

The problem is that to many American ears the word euphonium is, at best, faintly anachronistic and at worst, downright silly. I lean towards silly in my reaction to it -- to me "euphonium" reeks of some sort of wierd 19th century wordsmithing.

Bingo. That's why in America baritone horn conveys more meaning. Nobody in America (outside a few brass bands, where they already know the difference) knows what an English-style baritone is, so there's no confusion with that instrument. And it's the term used in school bands for about 100 years before we had to justify buying Johnny that expensive compensating Besson instead of letting him use the bell-front Conn at the school. But they are musically interchangeable and no more different from each other than a Conn and a Miraphone tuba.

Rick "who sides with Bloke on this one" Denney

[cjk]

A euphonium is a baritone with an attitude

My explanation is

euphonium is the same length as a trombone except with valves and bigger around.

[TonyTuba]

Bingo. That's why in America baritone horn conveys more meaning. Nobody in America (outside a few brass bands, where they already know the difference) knows what an English-style baritone is, so there's no confusion with that instrument. And it's the term used in school bands for about 100 years before we had to justify buying Johnny that expensive compensating Besson instead of letting him use the bell-front Conn at the school. But they are musically interchangeable and no more different from each other than a Conn and a Miraphone tuba.

Rick "who sides with Bloke on this one" Denney[/quote]


What do you mean by musically interchangeable? I am not sure I get what you mean.

I used to think baritone and euphonium were the same instrument, and in American terminolgy, we use the term interchangeably, but this is not correct. Baritone Horns and Euphoniums are distinctly different instruments, and it is time we recognize that and educate about it. They sound different, and have a different role. Most kids are playing what we call euphoniums now days. Let's not call them baritones anymore, unless it is a true baritone. call a horse a horse, some might say.

[Chuck(G)]

"clarinet"

[Louis]

I've taken to telling people "it looks like a small tuba, it's pitched an octave higher, and it's the tenor/baritone solo voice among brass instruments in a band." This has holes in it, but it does seem to enlighten the hearer.

I don't think I agree that the Conn-style baritone horn and the Besson-style euphonium are interchangable. Sometimes they are - you can get by on either in many concert band settings. But I find the American baritone horn best suited to playing old military band pieces, while I don't think it would be adequate playing euphonium parts in a British-style brass band. It's bore is right between the euphonium and the baritone (the British one).

Louis (who has the pleasure of playing a British baritone, an American baritone horn, and a Besson compensating euphonium, all on a regular basis)

[Bob Mosso]

I play euphonium, also known as a baritone... then depending on the response:

Blank Stare:
A baritone plays in the same range as a trombone, it looks like a small tuba.

Affirming Nod:
A euphonium has bigger tubes than a baritone. The baritone sounds more like a valve trombone, the euphonium sounds more like a tuba.

And the ever so common follow up question "Why did you choose such an obscure instrument?"......

[Z-Tuba Dude]

I think it really depends on the relative sophistication of the person (people) you are speaking to.

With someone, or an audience, that is not musically well informed, I simply describe the euphonium as "being like a tuba's little brother". Any further information is superfluous, as they will not understand, nor remember those details. Of course, you can nudge the bar higher, if they seem to get that concept, and fill in more supporting details. Otherwise, you will end up being just like Charlie Brown's teacher ("Wah, wah, wah,....)"

[Rick Denney]

What do you mean by musically interchangeable? I am not sure I get what you mean.

I used to think baritone and euphonium were the same instrument, and in American terminolgy, we use the term interchangeably, but this is not correct. Baritone Horns and Euphoniums are distinctly different instruments, and it is time we recognize that and educate about it. They sound different, and have a different role. Most kids are playing what we call euphoniums now days. Let's not call them baritones anymore, unless it is a true baritone. call a horse a horse, some might say.

Tony, the terms altohorn, tenorhorn, and baritone horn are used differently in nearly every country. When England and Germany agree (which they don't), then perhaps we'll learn how to tag along.

But when the kid pulls out that older band music, and it says "Baritone B.C." in the upper left corner, is he supposed to put his Besson 967 down and pick up a Besson (English-style) baritone? If he does, he really will change the intended character of the music.

I have a Reynolds baritone from 1937. It has a bore in the .57 range, a 10.5" bell, and fairly fat outer branches. My Besson euphonium has a bore of .58", a bell of 11", and slightly fatter outer branches. Are those different instruments? The first would have been called a baritone by anybody in the U.S. at the time it was made.

By the same token, I have a Miraphone 186 tuba that has a bore of .77, a bell of 16.5", and a distinctly tall and narrow shape. I also have a Holton BB-345, which has a bore of .75", a bell of 20", and easily 50% more volume of air than the Miraphone. They are both called tubas. In fact, they are both contrabass tubas, and we have to go yet another level down the taxonomy (6/4 versus 4/4) to get at the differences. Those old band parts call them Bass Horns, and that to me is completely descriptive. Bass Horn = Tuba and Tuba = Bass Horn.

Given that the English baritone with its trombone bore and 8" bell is only used in specialized groups in the U.S. (and no band part is written for it outside that specialty area), I would think it fair to let it have the special name, such as English Baritone. And you have to do that anyway if you want to communicate, even to brass players outside the BBB tradition. You can't just say it's a baritone, because they'll picture a euphonium in their mind. You have to say it's a small, English-style baritone.

By musically interchangeable, I mean that I can use my old Reynolds for a "Baritone B.C." part and very few in the audience would be able to see or hear any difference between that and my Besson euphonium. Both are so much more alike than either is like, say, a rotary oval euphonium that trying to distinguish between with separate terms seems pointless.

But I have also seen where the word "euphonium" is being used to put others down just as much as "BBb vs. CC" is being used to put others down among school-age kids (my nieces being my examples of note). "He's just a BBb player, while I have a CC tuba" "He has that old baritone, but I have a euphonium." "When you get better, we'll move you up to a euphonium." (Mantia must roll in his grave when he hears that one.) "All CC tubas sound and play better than BBb tubas" And so on. A Willson 2950 is no more different from my old Reynolds than my Holton is from my Miraphone. And my old Besson euphonium is probably closer in sound to the Reynolds than it is to the Willson.

Rick "who thinks the instruments define the terms, not the other way around" Denney

[Chuck(G)]

If I'm talking about plain old concert band music, I'll say "baritone" because you never know what someone's going to bring to the party.

OTOH, if I'm talking about British-style brass band music, I make a distinction because parts for both euphonium and baritone are part of the picture.

If you take a look at US band music from the 19th century, you almost never see the word "euphonium" used. However, there were distinctions between Bb tenor horn, Bb baritone horn and Bb bass (which is not the same as a BBb tuba).

In the early 20th century, the word "euphonium" was generally applied in the US to the double-belled variety; single-bell versions were still "baritones".

[Teubonium]

I give up !!!!!! I have not found simple and concise way to explain to people what I play.

So....how do you answer the question


" YOU PLAY A WHAT ?"


I think I'll just carry this in my pocket and use it to answer the question.

Aahhh, so it's like a French horn, 'cause you move the buttons with your left hand

[windshieldbug]

In the early 20th century, the word "euphonium" was generally applied in the US to the double-belled variety; single-bell versions were still "baritones".

Not that I'm looking for trouble, but check out the Conn double-belled baritone

______________________
Mike (who has a 1907 double-belled baritone) Keller

[9811matt]

Baritone = Bass Cornet

Euphonium = Bass Flugle Horn

Or "baby tuba" works too.



err.

[Chuck(G)]

Not that I'm looking for trouble, but check out the Conn double-belled baritone

You know, Conn talked about a whole bunch of instruments, and I'm still not sure what they were referring to.

[oldbandnerd]

I am glad to see every one is having a good time with this post.
I was curious to see what responses I would get . I put this same question up on the trombone,euphonium and tuba page of The Brass Forum about 2 months ago and got a lot of really interesting replys there too. Go check it out !

http://www.ibowtie.com/brassforum/viewtopic.php?t=270

Once again I think Bloke has cut through noise and confusion with his first post here : " it's a baritone horn " seems to be the best answer. It is simple and to the point . Any other just requires extra effort that will only confuse the non-musical . If the person you are trying to explain it too has never heard of a baritone horn then you are not stuck having to give a long winded thecnical explantion of conical and cylindrical .....etc ,you can just drop it there.

I would like to give an Honorable mention to Rick " I have way too much time on my hands " Denny . I always love it when he chimes in .

Don't stop here though . I am sure others out there have their own opinions and need to vent . Let it fly folks, let it fly !

[TonyTuba]

Rick,

I appreciate the insight into your line of thoughts. I wasn't quite sure what you meant, but I see your point now. Thanks. I can think of one tune from the concert band repertoire that has seperate baritone and Euphonium parts...Lincolnshire Posey. There may also be a slew of other British composers that have written for brass band then for concert band and kept true to that tradition. it would be interesting to know of all the tunes that specifically want euphonium, or baritone....or, is it impossible to ever know because the times and usages have changed so much.

Either way...to the topic...my answer to the question...is simple:

It's a One-ba.