24AW alternatives?

[pecktime]

I recently bought a MW2011TA 'HoJo' tuba (ridiculous price from Music123) and have been on a small mouthpiece safari. I've played a Kelly Helleberg on my 3450 for the last few years but the 2011 sounds great with a Faxx 24AW for my purposes (small group jazz).

Reading the posts on this forum it seems that the 24AW is a polarising Mouthpiece (to put it mildly), but there do not seem to be many suggested alternatives along the lines of: "If you like the 24AW, you'll LOVE the ....".

Can the TNFJ help me out?

[GC]

I guess the most common variant modeled on the 24AW would be the venerable Wick 3, which has a small shank model, a large shank model (3L), a shallow cup model (3SL), a model designed for longer term comfort (3XL), and a new Helleburg cup model (3CC).

[cambrook]

In my experience there is a huge variety of mouthpieces with the description 24AW, and most of them have little in common with each other. There is a bigger difference between some "24AW's" than there is between different model numbers from most manfacturers.

I've tried a few (Bach and others) over the years and not really cared for them, but recently tried the JKlier version and it's good. It's also quite cheap at $70 (Dillons)

[oedipoes]

I bought a PT24+ for the Besson compensating EEb, and it's quite good for that purpose!
I believe it's based on a Bach 24AW in some way ....

[GC]

The Wick 3 was designed to be an "improved" version of the 24AW that addressed some of the problems and criticisms of the original. The 3L is the same but with a larger shank. Wick later started playing around with the cup, rim, throat, and backbore for folks who wanted some variety in a mouthpiece with the same inner diameter.

Personally, I've found that the 3 does an excellent job of taming the quirks of a lot of antique tubas with smaller receivers. I used one for several years with Civil War-era horns. I still use it on my tiny Fillmore Bros Eb. I recently bought a 3CC and a 2CC (newest models from Wick) and find that they work extremely well on my antique Conn monster Eb. The taper of the receiver is a little narrower than modern American taper, and I'm going to have the receiver replaced to fit these properly.

[ken k]

Tuba exchange used to have a Marcinkewisc (Sp?) Rose model which was similar

nice big round bowl cup without the big fat rim

also the Wick 3L which has been mentioned.

I would love to try a Bach 24A, if such a thing exists... (minus the "W"ide rim)

I think this wide rim was intended to help cushion the embouchure while marching.

kk

[MikeW]

If you are looking at the wick3 as an alternative for a 24AW, you should probably note that the 24AW has a very wide rim, which is supposed to make it more comfortable for long sessions, or for marching. If that is the feature you are looking for, the wick3 doesn't have it (it has a narrower rim than the 24W, and I think it also a wider throat).

According to a note I seem to remember reading on the Wick website, the cup of the wick3 was based on the Bach 24AW. However, it does not have the huge "cushion" rim of the 24AW, so it more closely resembles what a "Bach 24A" would have been like, had Bach ever made one.

If your tuba has an "American Standard" receiver, then the Wick website mentions a "3XL" model, which is described as having a wider and more rounded rim, which would presumably be nearer to the original 24AW.

There is also a Kelly 24AW (plastic) piece which is lighter, cheaper (about $32), tougher when dropped, better in hot and cold conditions etc. You either like them or hate them. Also a Kelly stainless steel 24AW for about US$191 (plus shipping, taxes, import duty etc.). I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Kelly models are more free blowing - maybe a wider throat?.

Comparing the Bach24AW side by side with the DenisWick3, I get more and better sound through the 3, but of course YMMV.

[GC]

The 3XL rim is a little wider and a good bit more rounded, but it doesn't really approach the rim size of the 24AW.

[winston]

Look at the larger mouthpieces in the newer Denis Wick "ultra" series - AT1U, AT2U, etc.. Large (wide) comfortable rims with larger backbores.

[PaulTkachenko]

The Yamaha is a good alternative and my preference.

[pecktime]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'm still trying to get a hang of the main types of tuba mouthpiece.
I played a Kelly Helleberg on my Meinl CC 3450 for a few years and thought i was set until it didn't work on my Bb Meinl 2011 'HoJo'. On the 2011 the helleberg sounds dull and distant- which surprises me as the 2011 and the 3450 share the same bell. Anyway i'm liking the brashness and density of the 24aw, it responds immediately and i can put the bassline down at the front of the beat like a double bass.

[peter birch]

there is a reasonably new kid on the block in the UK (its been around for 5-6 years),http://alliance-products.net/featured/les-neish the Les Neish model is a similar size to the 24AW but has a different aesthetic and a different feel.

[Dan Bradley]

The Perantucci PT-24 is based off of the Bach 24AW. I used one for years. The PT-24+ is the same mouthpiece with a heavyweight shell. I prefer the regular PT-24 to the heavyweight variety. It has the same characteristics of the 24AW: wide, round rim, huge throat. I think that the throat is bigger than almost any mouthpiece around! I recommend checking it out if you liked the Bach.

Dan Bradley

[Three Valves]

The Perantucci PT-24 is based off of the Bach 24AW. I used one for years. The PT-24+ is the same mouthpiece with a heavyweight shell. I prefer the regular PT-24 to the heavyweight variety. It has the same characteristics of the 24AW: wide, round rim, huge throat. I think that the throat is bigger than almost any mouthpiece around! I recommend checking it out if you liked the Bach.

Dan Bradley

How about the bowl and huge throat of the 24AW but with the rim of a Helleberg120s??

[pecktime]

Update: I ordered a PT24 from Custom Music International. It is very different to my Faxx 24AW.

The PT24 makes a big wooly foghorn tone on my 2011. Like a 1920s Conn bass sax compared to a modern Selmer 'super baritone' if that helps anyone. Feels like driving a big Chrysler with vague yet finger-light power steering.

Sounds great on my 3450 though.

I think I need to do more research. Is there a sticky or FAQ anywhere on mouthpieces? I'm glad I moved away from Hellebergs, what's the quintessential non-helleberg?

And what are other people using on their Hojos?

[TheGoyWonder]

+1 to Yamaha YBB 66D4. I like their 67C4 a lot better than bach equivalent Bach 18 so good chance 66D4 is also better. Yamahas have pretty fat rims, I wouldn't worry about the rim being too skinny.

[Michael Bush]

Is there a sticky or FAQ anywhere on mouthpieces?

I sent you a PM.

[Three Valves]

Is part of what makes the 24AW work simply the mass of that fat rim??

If so, how can I get the mass without the rim??

[Three Valves]

Admittedly, I know about as much about this line of mouthpieces as I know about Mongolian cuisine (~0~), but doesn't this one seem to hint towards the same deep/narrow cup - SANS the (eyebrow-bending) 24AW ("Walmart-wide") rim and sans the 24AW ("Walmart-wide") throat?

http://www.perantucci.com/pt83_en.html

The + models of these seem to take care of the mass issue....

[Peach]

Anything Warren Deck has influenced the design of seems to have 24AW-type DNA.

I've got a Wick/Tindall 2 and that is very similar to the Monette Mendoker C. Both these mouthpieces have links back to Mr Deck.
Stork make their version of the 24 which is also expensive like a Monette.
All of these have a wider opening (c.32.8mm) than the Bach 24AW which has a somewhat narrow opening.