Vibram worth the money ?

[oldbandnerd]

I’m looking to replace my worn hiking boots and want to know if those very expensive boots with Vibram soles are worth the money.
I don’t hike but I wear hiking boots for just about everything outside of work. I usually buy Timberland because they are very comfortable and I can find them to fit my fatso big feet size of 12W. But, the soles aren’t as durable as the uppers and can be slippery on some surfaces.
I don’t mind spending the money if it’s worth it. I wish Timberland would make their soles as durable as the shoe leather.

[bort]

Not sure... but I'm about 6 months into my first pair of shoes with Vibram soles, and they are doing pretty well so far. I typically wear the absolute crap out of my shoes before replacing them, so I have high expectations. Will see how it goes... but after the first 6 months, they aren't doing too badly.

[Donn]

I don't think Vibram is a thing, it's a company that makes things. The classic Vibram lug sole for hiking boots is very durable, but the key thing is that you can replace the sole, or rather a cobbler can. That means that I can buy a good pair of boots, and keep them going for decades. The boots may not actually come with Vibram soles - my Redwings for example didn't - but the choice of resole will be black Vibram, because that's what the cobblers have. I think my Redwings are on their second resole.

And for what it's worth, the Vibram soles wear better than the fancy soles that came with the Redwings, and wear better than the soles on my fairly nice Lowas, etc. When a sole has lugs, and the lugs aren't solid, naturally the outside layer wears through faster on some of the lugs that are getting all the action, and then your sole has holes into the interior, which is probably neither durable nor waterproof. Vibram lugs are solid ... at least, in their classic black lug soles.

If you're 12W, you have more options than I do. I can wear a common size 13D if I have to, but for a good fit with most boot makers it's 13B, which is rare. Part of the attraction with Redwing, but they do have some decent quality models, and a good pair could last you for the duration with a little luck. And a resole once in a while. Buy the boots in person, let them fit you; with some models they'll put you in a different size on each foot if that's what it takes. There are other good US boot makers, but most of them do western boots, and actually I'm not positive that anyone makes a hiking boot any more without those "breathable" "waterproof" inner liners. So I may have bought my last hiking boot.

[tofu]

I've got a pair of Vasque Mountain Hiking boots with Vibram soles that I bought in 1976 for $150 that are still going strong. Heavy as hell with all that heavy duty leather and steel shanks etc. but I've never turned an ankle or suffered any foot problems/injuries hiking/climbing the rocks - they have served me well. I do regularly maintain them, but they were worth every penny. They probably go for $450 or more new today.

I've got several sets of shoes with vibram soles. They work well and wear well - I stay with tried and true. I find in shoes you get what you pay for. It seems though, in today's world people want throw away shoes/boots and neither want to maintain or repair/resole them. They want whatever is currently hip & cheap & then just toss them out.

[Three Valves]

Yes.

I don't like to part with money but I'll spend what I have to for nice shoes.

Brooks Brothers has sales the day after fathers day and Christmas.

They have a house brand made in England that are good and sell Redwing and Allen Edmonds also.

[thevillagetuba]

Vibram rubber soles are great, durable, long-lasting soles. I grew up in retail sales and payed my living expenses through working the Men's Shoes department at Nordstrom (among others) and my customers with boots with Vibram soles were always happy with their wear and was more often helping to replace boots with uppers that were completely trashed but had great looking soles. I am a big fan of both Ecco and Allen Edmonds as they will rebuild the shoe (refurbishing the upper and replacing the sole) to make it look like new for significantly less than the cost of replacing it, which makes them great investments as their shoes can last 2-3 "shoe lifetimes." Plus, they should both have options that will work for you as a 12W (a 46 in Ecco should be pretty close to perfect, especially in their Track models as that last has historically run wide, and Allen Edmonds has always been helpful in making shoes to a specific size and catering to the full range of sizes).

Hope that helps,

Robert

[Tom]

Yes.

I wear Chippewa "service oxfords" with a Vibram sole or Red Wing Iron Rangers with Vibram sole (yes, you can buy them new that way now) daily. They are not "hiking boots" but I wear my boots far more than a typical hiking boot user ever would. I'm on my feet a lot, indoors and out, on all kinds of surfaces. The soles wear like iron without being too stiff, in my opinion. Personally I wouldn't buy boots I intended to wear often unless they had a Vibram sole. It may also be worth mentioning that my "casual" shoes are Merrill, also with Vibram soles. I even have a pair of Merrils that are 11 years old with Vibram soles that look great. The uppers are trashed, so I use these as my lawn mower shoes, but the sole seems like it would darn near last forever. Obviously, I'm a fan.

Speaking of soles, Dainite soles are great too. I actually have a pair of dress shoes with these. They look nice and wear much, much better than the traditional hard leather soles. Admittedly I do have other dress shoes with leather soles, but I will opt for Dainite when available new or if shoes need a resole.

Tom "don't buy cheap shoes or tires" B.

[oldbandnerd]

Thanks for all of the good feedback. It has been very helpful. I’m sold and will be looking around ( Amazon ) at what is available.
I have issues with my feet hurting and finding shoes that fit and are comfortable because I’m over 300 pounds. Timberlands have always fit well and are very comfortable but I’m tired of throwing away perfectly good shoes because the soles are worn out and can’t be replaced. They also stay waterproof for a long time and can be reconditioned easily with Mink Oil. Not bad for leather boots under $100.

[Donn]

A better place to look for shoes might do you more good, than a better sole material.

I don't know anything about what your area is like, but there's nothing like trying a shoe on in the store, and there's nothing like a store that sells quality boots. Redwing in particular is strong on that. Their salesmen often have a lot of experience working with people who have foot issues, and/or have demanding work situations. There may be other options. You might go into a store like that and be presented with a shoe that doesn't have a Vibram sole - don't worry about it! Lots of other kinds of soles work fine, too, and may be more comfortable (Vibram has relatively little shock absorption.)

[oldbandnerd]

I hate going shopping even when I’m looking for something I want. I really hate going to a mall. I spend a lot of money with Amazon for these reasons. I can tell you that I’ve looked at Bass Pro, Dick’s Sporting Goods and a couple of other sporting stores and their selection of 12W boots are small. Another reason to shop Amazon.

I had a pair of Red Wing work boots years ago and hated them. I found this really disappointing because I never heard anything negative and paid way more than I could afford for them. I wore them for 8 months and gave them away to someone else. But,I never considered them for hiking boots and will be paying a visit to a store near me tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

[tofu]

I hate going shopping even when I’m looking for something I want. I really hate going to a mall. I spend a lot of money with Amazon for these reasons. I can tell you that I’ve looked at Bass Pro, Dick’s Sporting Goods and a couple of other sporting stores and their selection of 12W boots are small. Another reason to shop Amazon.

I had a pair of Red Wing work boots years ago and hated them. I found this really disappointing because I never heard anything negative and paid way more than I could afford for them. I wore them for 8 months and gave them away to someone else. But,I never considered them for hiking boots and will be paying a visit to a store near me tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.

I can appreciate hating shopping...but I will bet you donuts to dollars that what you really need to find is a quality shoe retailer with trained ABC Certified Pedorthists on staff. Yes - you will pay more than Amazon, but honestly not that much more. They will spend a considerable amount of time with you evaluating your feet, shoes and gait. They will use various devices to measure & x-ray your feet - how you stand - how you walk - how you compensate for other body issues such as a bad back or hip, being overweight and where you carry that weight etc. You will be surprised that what you think is your size - is not the shoe that will work for you. They will also be able to fit you with inserts at the fraction of the cost of custom orthodics. It is both time and money well spent. Don't try to do it yourself - you really can't evaluate and see your gait, how your shoes wear etc unless you are trained to do so. And even if you know for instance that say you overpronate - just getting a shoe that says it is good for that - doesn't mean it is good for you. I'm sure if you look or ask a podiatrist they can tell you where to find a good shop with a good Pedorthist on staff. In the Chicago area this place is excellent -> https://waxbergs.com Trust me -you & your feet will thank me if you go this route.

[Donn]

That's interesting, new one on me and I see there's a store in the area that advertises this service, so may check it out. On the subject of orthotic compensation, though ... this is not so much my rant as something I pick up from the lady of the house who has a pretty deep background in movement physiology - in the last 10 years or so, there has been kind of a backlash on "motion control" and "stability" shoe designs, questioning whether looking good on the treadmill really cuts down on injuries when people get out on the road. And possibly over prescription of orthotics. The theory as I dimly understand it being, it's a muscular system, and needs to operate as designed to handle the considerable loads from running or even walking a good distance, and bits of padding aren't really a good substitute, though it may feel real good at the outset.

[tofu]

That's interesting, new one on me and I see there's a store in the area that advertises this service, so may check it out. On the subject of orthotic compensation, though ... this is not so much my rant as something I pick up from the lady of the house who has a pretty deep background in movement physiology - in the last 10 years or so, there has been kind of a backlash on "motion control" and "stability" shoe designs, questioning whether looking good on the treadmill really cuts down on injuries when people get out on the road. And possibly over prescription of orthotics. The theory as I dimly understand it being, it's a muscular system, and needs to operate as designed to handle the considerable loads from running or even walking a good distance, and bits of padding aren't really a good substitute, though it may feel real good at the outset.

Yeah there is no doubt that shoe manufacturers jumped on it as did podiatrists as a way to fatten up margins. People have unique builds - so you could have somebody who say has one foot that overpronates while the other underpronates. They either self diagnose or get a bad analysis that recognizes say the overpronate issue. Imagine buying a shoe off the rack that supposedly is for people that overpronate - complete opposite of what one foot needs. Somebody with an issue like that probably has no idea what the issue is much less how to solve it. Another issue that a good pedorthist will figure out how much your overpronating or underpronating and adjust for that. Add in how they land on the foot and weight etc. And of course how you intend to use the shoe. It is a complex affair. A shoe off the rack couldn't possibly do this and the same for just randomly buying inserts. So I can see how folks just going out and buying inserts would do more harm than good to themselves. You're correct running on a treadmill is far different than running on the street or trail or off-road. A good pedorthist will measure things like heel strike and where you land on the foot. It is amazing when you really start to pay attention to "how" people walk and how they compensate for other issues in the body how complex the mechanics are. One thing that surprises people is not only one leg typically longer/shorter than the other, but the amount of difference. it is not uncommon for a variance of 3/4 to 1.5 inches. The goal of the pedorthist is to make it possible to align the spine. When people compensate their walking style over a number years it leads to problems in other parts of the body such as hips and knees. The science has come a long way over the years in understanding the feet and the relationship with the whole body and it is still evolving, but it is light years advanced from the first sport orthodics I got 40 years ago. I would also guess people wear shoes way past their "wear" date. I'm really guilty of that one. It's hard to toss out running shoes that still look good.

[Donn]

As I understand it, the recent backlash started with observation of how people walk after they're fitted with these compensations. With "stability" shoes on, they tended to heel strike, without them they tend to come down more front/mid. Which has implications for hips and knees, etc. The foot -- not the heel -- is a big part of that muscular system that absorbs impacts. I don't know, there has undoubtedly been more research since then and the podiatrists and shoe industry people have plenty of ammunition with which to defend their turf, I don't really follow this stuff.

I know for sure, there are plenty of reports of people who threw off their crutches so to speak and then had major issues. By all accounts, if you can develop your own muscles to go without compensation, it's a process that takes a good long time, and an abrupt change is asking for injury. Speaking of which - your Vibram shoes:

[Three Valves]

Who didn't know that individual toe pockets = broken toes??

[Donn]

I guess quite a few people not only didn't know that, but wore them quite a bit and never found out. I've never worn them myself. I believe they're made in China.

[MaryAnn]

I'm at the far opposite end of the scale from you guys, but I still had to go my own way with shoe buying. I finally figured out that I had to always get shoes with removable insoles so I could see how well my foot's shape matched with the inside of the shoe.
I pull out the insoles and stand on them in stocking feet. You can easily see if your foot shape is the same as the insole shape, or whether the shoe is going to be cramming it on one side or the other. You foot should fit right on the insole, without hanging over the edge anywhere. I need what is called a straight last, and 99.9% of the shoes out there have a curved last, which is a pain machine for me, cramming the little toe side while leaving a huge gap between the side of the big toe and the shoe. I've had to walk out of hiking shoe stores where the "expert" was trying to get me to buy a pain machine because "that is how you measure."
I don't wear ladies' dress shoes because it is impossible to find any that don't hurt, and I simply refuse to live with feet that hurt. I can't figure out why *anyone* would want to subject themselves to that.

[Donn]

"Well ... we have ... the Cruel Shoes ..."
...
... Anna held her bloody feet up to the mirror ...

[tofu]

I need what is called a straight last, and 99.9% of the shoes out there have a curved last, which is a pain machine for me, cramming the little toe side while leaving a huge gap between the side of the big toe and the shoe.

This is one of the things that a certified pedorthist will figure out at a quality specialty shoe store and they will stock both shoes that work but also all the weird sizes like 5A or 13EEE etc that regular places don't carry because they aren't volume sellers. Of course the caveat is while the shoes aren't ugly they won't win any fashion awards.

I've had to walk out of hiking shoe stores where the "expert" was trying to get me to buy a pain machine because "that is how you measure."

Had to laugh out loud as that is all too true. The "experts" training at a place like REI is usually attending a 60 minute seminar on selling shoes.

[tofu]

As I understand it, the recent backlash started with observation of how people walk after they're fitted with these compensations. With "stability" shoes on, they tended to heel strike, without them they tend to come down more front/mid. Which has implications for hips and knees, etc. The foot -- not the heel -- is a big part of that muscular system that absorbs impacts. I don't know, there has undoubtedly been more research since then and the podiatrists and shoe industry people have plenty of ammunition with which to defend their turf, I don't really follow this stuff.

I know for sure, there are plenty of reports of people who threw off their crutches so to speak and then had major issues. By all accounts, if you can develop your own muscles to go without compensation, it's a process that takes a good long time, and an abrupt change is asking for injury. Speaking of which - your Vibram shoes:

Those shoes were all the rage a couple years ago. I don't see a lot of people wearing them so much these days. From all my own athletic pursuits I certainly can see the benefits of naturally strengthening the foot for people without inherent structural deficiencies. For myself I could never use these shoes as I've got flat arches and no amount of training is going to alleviate this & those shoes would just make the problem worse. I think a lot of folks developed problems from those shoes because not only did they not gradually build up their feet over time but they had inherent structural issues. Which is why a good podiatrist and pedorthist is worth visiting.