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Rotary CC tuba

Postby BBruce107 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:26 pm

Hey all, I was talking with a friend of mine about large CC tubas. My question is what is the largest Rotary CC tuba that was made (staying in the practical market excluding the insanely huge Rudy 6/4 horns) I play the Rudy 5/4 which is a huge beast and to my knowledge the biggest rotary CC out there.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby Stryk » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:40 pm

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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby Stryk » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:41 pm

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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bort » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:48 pm

The B&S Neptune is a very large CC tuba. Basically a PT 6, but with a 20.5" bell.

The Alex 164 is a Kaiser CC tuba and also very large.

My Willson is big, but the Rudy 5/4 is one size bigger.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby DouglasJB » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:28 pm

The Huller is MASSIVELY tall. I did think of the Neptune, and (a little while later) of a 164. How common are the large Alex 164's? I've only seen 1 new at horn guys and 2 used (one at horn guys with a long 5th valve and the other for sale with a detachable bell)
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bort » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:30 am

Not many 164's in CC, but a few more in BBb.

Other tubas that come to mind:
* MW Tuono is really a pretty large tuba
* Hirsbrunner 193 (Kaiser tuba)
* a one-off rotary MW 2165 was once made
* a Martin tuba that was/is for sale in Chicago. Basically a short and squatty Martin tuba, with a very large bell. Pretty wild looking tuba, got to be the only one around.
* I guess the Miraphone 190 is pretty big, but again, for sure smaller than the Rudy
* A Willson 6400 CC exists, but maybe only on paper? It is super rare, at the least. Similar to the 3050, but with a taller bell and more of a Kaiser tuba wrap.

Pretty sure Gronitz would (have been able to) make their big tuba in rotary form, too. That would be the CZK or something like that?

Large rotary tubas, and the quest for the best one, has been my thing for about the past 10 years. The problem is that "rotary" and "CC" are really not much of a match compared to BBb and rotary ,or CC and piston. So there are fewer models to begin with,and even fewer models... And examples of them... At the far end of the spectrum. Yes, there are in reality and on paper some big rotary CC tubas. But they are just very rare, and hard to track down.

The Rudy 5/4 actually seems to be rather common, all things considered, possibly because they are such great tubas. The big Cerveny tubas are also not uncommon, probably because of their historically low prices. By comparison, my Willson is one of about 5 that i know of in the US, and maybe about 10 in the world. Probably a few more than that, but still a very low number.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby kontrabasstuba » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:14 am

Miraphone Modell 90 5/4 Cc
Miraphone Modell 291 5/4 Cc ,Bruckner,

https://www.miraphone.de/en/instruments ... ning-c?p=4" target="_blank

Thein Brass Cc Tuba

http://thein-blechblasinstrumente.de/08 ... hp?lang=en" target="_blank

Wessex Modell Anton

https://eu.wessex-tubas.com/collections ... nton-tc491" target="_blank
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby DouglasJB » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:50 am

Bort, how does the MRP CC compare to a Neptune size wise?
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bort » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:50 am

Probably pretty similar, but the MRP would have a smaller bell, and a slightly smaller bottom bow.

My understanding is that the Neptune is basically like a PT6, but with a slightly larger bottom bow, and a larger bell. And then the MRP is about the same size as a PT6. Naturally there are going to be other differences, but that's the general idea.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bloke » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:56 am

There's a really big rotary CCC in Texas. I dunno if it's for sale, though.

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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby obreitys » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:21 pm

What, only 3 valves on that huge Texas horn?! Lame. :wink: :wink:
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby toobagrowl » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:57 pm

bort wrote:Probably pretty similar, but the MRP would have a smaller bell, and a slightly smaller bottom bow.

My understanding is that the Neptune is basically like a PT6, but with a slightly larger bottom bow, and a larger bell. And then the MRP is about the same size as a PT6. Naturally there are going to be other differences, but that's the general idea.


Isn't the MRP basically a PT-6 with a Fafner bell? The PT-6 has a M-W 25 bell on it (with slightly more 'pancake').

Question - does anyone know if the Neptune and old M-W 2165 share the same bell? I know the bugles are different on those two. But what about the bell? It's been many years since I've played those, but the bell size & taper seemed very similar between those two. :idea:
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby Alex C » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:05 pm

The largest CC that I have played is the old Miraphone 190 Kaiser.

I think the old Miraphone 190 is bigger than any of the current Miraphone CC rotary valve tubas.

A close second are the ancient Cerveny Kaiser tubas imported by Louis Vitak of Chicago before 1930. Most were in BBb but I have played a CC.

Rudy made a 7/4 tuba that I've played but I honestly cannot remember if it's BBb or CC, it was like trying to play a scale on the Empire State Building and that's all I can remember about it, I am still in shell-shock.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby barry grrr-ero » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:00 pm

Don't forget the M-W "Tuono". This CC looks, feels and sounds BIG. However, you have to special order them which takes many months. They don't come cheap, either.

http://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/en/i ... 0ra-tuono/
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bort » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:57 pm

barry grrr-ero wrote:Don't forget the M-W "Tuono". This CC looks, feels and sounds BIG. However, you have to special order them which takes many months. They don't come cheap, either.

http://www.melton-meinl-weston.com/en/i ... 0ra-tuono/" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


There are a lot of physical similarities between my 3050RZ and the Tuono, definitely the same "style":

Image

* Tuono is a little taller
* Different bell flare
* Willson bell is a little wider at the bell
* Tuono bore is .846, Willson is .767

It's been a few years since I've played a Tuono, but I remember really liking it. That was before I owned my Willson, or really spent serious time with any large CC tuba. I'm curious how I would find that the Tuono and Willson compare with each other now? They are both large tubas with large voices, and pretty sure there's not a lot of times either tuba would be "too small." :)

I'm sure there are plenty of differences... but I forgot how similar they look.
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby bloke » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:31 pm

same color...except for fingerprints
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Re: Rotary CC tuba

Postby goodgigs » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:35 pm

Before I built my plastic horns, I had many conversations with the late Dr. Bob Rusk who told me
that the reason he always cut down york tubas is the fact that in his opinion the York is the biggest
horn you can play nimbly. "a martin would be a very interesting CC tuba but I doubt it would play as well."

BTW; the only reason Bob ever cut any tubas to CC is the fact that when He graduated from northwestern,
nobody offered a cso copy at any price.

I miss Bob Rusk, He very much inspired me.
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