FINAL list of Mouthpiece upgrade

[TheTuba]

So I am currently searching for a funnel shaped mouthpiece. I narrowed the list down to :

PT/RT 50 or 48

Denis Wick 1L

Laskey 30H

Which one of these give the biggest, darkest sound?

I will be using it for solo playing on BBb tubas.

Please reply!
Thanks,
-Raghul

[Peach]

They're all fine, just pick one, preferably after you've tried them.

Of the 3 I'd say the pt50 is pretty big for most solo work.

[Donn]

Of the 3 I'd say the pt50 is pretty big for most solo work.

Couldn't the same be said for Denis Wick 1L? I've never seen one, but from what little I've read ...

[TheTuba]

Thanks for the replies!

to add more, out of the three mouthpieces, I want the one that sounds the darkest and the most potential for a big sound

-Raghul

[Ken Crawford]

A mouthpiece won't give you a big sound. A big sound can be had on any of the mouthpieces you listed, and many others. The sound you want has to come from your mind and proper physical execution. This or that mouthpiece will only potentially make it easier to get the sound you already have in your head.

[bort]

Buy the Laskey and play the crap out of it. There really isn't a definitive and we here, but the Laskey should not let you down.

If you are a student looking to improve your playing, you should have a good mouthpiece. You should also not switch mouthpieces while you are learning to play, in my opinion. There is just too much change happening in your playing, you need the mouthpiece and tuba to be constant.

[Leland]

Here's the deal. The best mouthpiece in the world won't help you if there are other issues with your playing. We don't know if you play with tension in your throat, closed teeth, or anything else that would kill the tone before it ever gets to the mouthpiece

Word.

And besides, for solo stuff, I usually went with a shallower mouthpiece instead of my PT50, because I wanted a brighter, more lively sound for less effort.

[Peach]

Of the 3 I'd say the pt50 is pretty big for most solo work.

Couldn't the same be said for Denis Wick 1L? I've never seen one, but from what little I've read ...

1L hardly small, but roughly the same size as a Helleberg 120. Wick's comparisons (PT88 etc) are well off I would say.

[Donn]

Well, the story on the largeness of the Denis Wick 1L, that I've seen, has been more about how deep it is, than how wide. But like I say, haven't seen one.

Some praise its virtues, others evidently don't ... if that meant anything, I guess we'd all be playing the same mouthpiece.

[doublebuzzing]

I played the 1L for awhile and found it quite similar to the Conn Helleberg 120. The rim seemed very similar and I believe the cup and throat were similar as well. The rim is 32.5mm which is great for me.

[royjohn]

IDK why some are so disparaging of the TNFJ in this thread, as the recommendations here make pretty good sense and are pretty much agreed in sentiment.

Looking at the OP's request (biggest, darkest tone) and the specs of the mpcs mentioned, I would go with the PT-50, since it seems like it is larger than the other two and is a larger cup and more funnel shaped than the PT-48 (which is called "pear shaped") even though the PT-48 has a larger ID. The throat is also a little smaller than that on the Wick, probably a good thing.

I'd also note that several folks pointed out that, for solo playing, these mpcs are probably too big and will not produce a nimble, bright enough sound. Somebody said they'll sound "like mud."

Pardon my pontification, but in many years as a professional counselor, I learned that there is only so much you can tell most young people. So if the OP is hell bent on the biggest, darkest mpc he can find, let's let him go for it and he can figure it out later, when someone tells him what he sounds like. I think the operative saying is "You can lead a horse to water, but you can break his neck trying to get him to drink." It's always possible to sell your mpc and get another.

To OP: I do have a Wick 1L that I can send you to try.

[TheTuba]

Thank you for the replies!

So to go further, I just don't like the Bach mouthpieces at this point. I used to around 2-3 years ago, and been using it for all that time, so I do know that it is making it harder for me to do stuff that is required of me. The middle to high range (c- Bb above staff) sounds whispery, and it is getting harder to get that dark sound that I desire. So I went back to my Conn 7B and the difference was immediate. Sure, its a bit harder to be flexible, but the sound was there. That's why I think I need a new mouthpiece. Is this a sufficient enough reason or do I just need to practice more.

(side note: I put about 1-3hours every day of practice.)
(other side note: not including school band stuff)

Thanks and keep the advice coming!
-Raghul

[Donn]

Is this a sufficient enough reason or do I just need to practice more.

Or, you might benefit from some work with a teacher who can see what's going on. Maybe even via Skype or something.

Here's the deal. The best mouthpiece in the world won't help you if there are other issues with your playing. We don't know if you play with tension in your throat, closed teeth, or anything else that would kill the tone before it ever gets to the mouthpiece

[fenne1ca]

I'll second Mark on the Helleberg 120S. My #1 recommendation for all my students, and my go-to backup/horn testing mouthpiece.

[Donn]

Faxx Hb is like a Conn 120S with a particularly nice rim, and can be acquired from hornguys.com at a very reasonable price. If I were sending students, or me, to buy a standard Helleberg. Though the Kellyberg is nice (particularly the crystal blue) and even less expensive, last I looked.

[royjohn]

The elephant wrote:

Pardon my pontification, but, on average, about how many high school tuba players have you taught every week for the past three decades of your life? Asking for a friend...

I'm not sure what you're getting at...that, in your friend's experience, kids in band don't act this way?

[swillafew]

Long ago, I asked a teacher (symphony player with long career) "how you do select a mouthpiece?", and his answer, "I use the one that plays best in tune".

[PlayTheTuba]

I personally own a Bach 22, Denis Wick 2, PT-48, and a GW MMVI C EURO shank mouthpieces.
If the Wick 1L is anything like a Wick 2/2L then from your list I would say go with the RT50 or RT 48, assuming your buying a new mouthpiece. If you are not able to try between the RT50 and RT48 I would say get the 48. The 50, like a PT88 (bowl shaped instead funnel) I've tried the RT50 might be to big. I never tried Laskey's so I can't comment on them.

For solo playing I think that a 48 would be fine as long as you don't play a tuba bigger than a 4/4 with a bore bigger than .687/.689 . Eb's tubas, like a modern 3+1 comp like a John Packer 377, Miraphone, Besson, Yamaha, etc would probably work okay too. If you play tubas that are bigger than that you'll probably have to play so short that it would defeat the purpose of using a large mouthpiece for solos to begin with. Actually a 4/4 British style BBb might be okay with that large of a mouthpiece for solos too.

In conclusion, as long as no one complains then do what makes you happy. From your list and what I have tried I would vote for the RT48.
Note I think there is someone selling a PT48 in the for sale section.

But then again I do play a "D" tuba and own a very beat up King 1241. The King has way to many and deep ToneControlz® that where not professionally installed nor were tested to see if they are functionally beneficial. I am certain that its ToneControlz® were by accident. So what do I know
Good luck and happy hunting!

[royjohn]

The elephant wrote:

I think that was very bad advice and poor teaching, which is not the same as counseling.

I don't think that you and I and your friend have a disagreement here. I said 'the biggest, darkest mpc to me is X and I don't recommend it, but if you have to try it, have at it and see for yourself.' I learned a long time ago not to argue with someone whose mind is already made up, esp. a young person. Many of us learn by making costly mistakes. That's too bad, but that's the way it is. And then, as Mark said, there's the odd outlier...

I understand your friend's concern for this young player and I share it. It's just that after they can walk and talk, they have to make certain mistakes for themselves.

[royjohn]

The elephant wrote:

This is the age when you are supposed to teach them to be an adult, not to cave to their whims. Honestly! In my studio if you are told to get something and you ignore me and get something else you immediately find another teacher. Period. I do not have time to waste on students who waste my time. It goes both ways. I need to perform and the kid needs to perform.

Maybe it's my personality, but I tend to pick up on the kids who are contrarians and work with them...actually that may be the difference between the kids in counseling and the [achieving] kids in tuba lessons. If it was one, two, three and you're out in counseling, you wouldn't help much of anybody. My guess is that there are some tuba kids (including the OP and several others who've participated here) who also fit this description. The one and done authoritarian approach is not going to work with them, but I'm sure you already know that.

Again, let me say that I don't think that you and I have a difference of opinion on the mpc. If I were working with this kid, I might allow the mpc trial and arrange a test where he could get feedback from some respected listeners or hear what others sounded like on a too big mpc. My wife would be amused at my being called an enabler. I had a good laugh, too. I'm really a pretty rigid old dude myself.