Do you shut off your cell phone???

[ThomasDodd]

I would never have attened an activity while on call. Arrange schedules arround those activities.

So if your kid has a band concert, or the lead in the school play, and you're on call,

I wouldn't be on call that day. I would have requested time off in advance, so I could go, and NOT be interrupted.

and either no one is able to take your shift, or the company doesn't allow swapping shifts, or perhaps (often the case for me) no one else in the company has the skill set to sub for you, you'd just miss the concert? Such is your revulsion to cell phones?

If I couldn't get the time off? Depends on the event. Probably would miss it. Might make it know I'll be out of touch from x to y. and leave a message, I'll check them at Z. Not much different than if the phone was lost/stolen or the battery died, except I knew in advance that it would happen.

But I'm expected at least to return calls within an hour or two. I'd never get to go ANYWHERE if I couldn't take my cell phone with me!

Take it fine. but have it off. Check messages once bjust befopre the event starts. If trhere's a break, check then, and when it's over. Few of us have positions that are so important. We cannot be done without for a few hours. Those that do, like doctors and emergency services, are not on call constantly. Get sick and try to get you doctor to come see you outside office hours. You see the doctor on call, then your doctor the next day. Maybe.

To hearken back to an earlier post of mine, you don't see doctors discussing a patient with an infection wondering what they would have done without antibiotics; they use the tool that's now available to be BETTER than they used to be.

antibiotic over use is another sore subject. But on the "on call" issue. Has this really improved things, or just inflated egos, and placed more burden on us? What is gained by have one guy who can handle a situation? And do you need the abuse? Being called for help when you supposed to be off?

Joe Baker, who is amazed at the hatred some people have for cell phones.

I don't hate cell phones. I hate the invasion into our lives they facillitate. I get strange looks, when I say I don't carry a phone. Like something is wrong with me not wanting everyone to be able to contact me any time, any place. When I'm working, I'm at the office. Any other time I'm not working, so don't call me about work. If I was on the road for work, I use one, but it would only be on when I working. After hours, it's off.

They are great in some applications. But I don't think you employer should expect to be able to contact you 24/7/365.

[ThomasDodd]

police job requires that I am able to be contacted 24/7. This is also state law in Arkansas. Fire, EMS, and certain state officials are also covered under the law.

In some states, physicians are covered by this type of law, especially if they are emergency room attendees. It does not matter if you are on or off shift, or on the list to be called or not.

What idiot in the legislature wrote that. It must be a new. Even 10 years ago a law like that would have been nearly impossible to obey. I hope they pay for the contact device be it a phone or pager. Why would any physician need top be contacted when not on call? That's why there's a call list in the first place.

Same with fire and EMS. You have designated people at designated tinmes. If that's not enough, then there are methods to call for more help. Like the Emergency Broadcast System (or what ever it is now).

So if you go fishing and drop the phone overboard, you can go to jail

[Chuck(G)]

Don't know what to tell you Chuck. I'm certainly not a wealthy Mercedes-drivin' member of the medical community!

Joe, I salute your open-mindedness and willingness to extend your reach in the world. Unfortunately, most people aren't as tolerant and involved as you are--and it's much easier to be close-minded in today's world.


--Chuck "who politely listened to 10 minute telemarketing pitch by an RNCC worker extending an invitiation to meet the President and the postition of Honorary Chairman of the Oregon Small Business Republican Alliance for only $1500, before he suggested that they could certainly find a better Honorary Chairman than a registered Democrat"(G)

[ThomasDodd]

high on our list of priorities is a neighborhood where people get out and spend time with one another.

Good luck.

It doesn't get much smaller that where I am, 2 families to the right, and 6 to the left, all within 2-300 yards. Almost no interaction with them at all. I don't know them by name or sight, nor do they know me. But no other "neighbors" for a mile any direction.

[Leland]

If my job needs to reach me, I can be reached.

I don't necessarily like that part, but there it is anyway. If any of you don't like it, too bad. You're not in my position.

Mine is always on vibrate except for when:

1) I'm in the car, and the phone isn't in my lap (in which case I use a headset anyway);

2) I'm doing something outside and don't have a pocket, so I have to set the phone aside -- I wouldn't feel a vibrating phone if I'm not touching it;

3) I'm at work already, in which case I switch the ringer to silent so that I can at least see whose calls I miss (it doesn't get that info if I shut it off).

I don't talk on it if I'm with someone else, whether at home, out for dinner, or in the car. I might answer a call if it's important enough, but I make sure it's finished within ten seconds.

Just don't lump me into the same category as all these other cell phone goobers.

[Joe Baker]

If my job needs to reach me, I can be reached.

I don't necessarily like that part, but there it is anyway. If any of you don't like it, too bad. You're not in my position.

Mine is always on vibrate except for when:

1) I'm in the car, and the phone isn't in my lap (in which case I use a headset anyway);

2) I'm doing something outside and don't have a pocket, so I have to set the phone aside -- I wouldn't feel a vibrating phone if I'm not touching it;

3) I'm at work already, in which case I switch the ringer to silent so that I can at least see whose calls I miss (it doesn't get that info if I shut it off).

I don't talk on it if I'm with someone else, whether at home, out for dinner, or in the car. I might answer a call if it's important enough, but I make sure it's finished within ten seconds.

Just don't lump me into the same category as all these other cell phone goobers.

Well said, Leland.

I'd only add that putting myself out of reach of my work also means putting myself out of reach of my family. I love them, and would not want them to have some problem where they need me and can't get ahold of me (not to imply that the cell-haters don't love their families; this is just part of MY way of looking after them, and it means a lot to me).
______________________________
Joe Baker, who knows this is just a personal preference thing, and has no problem with that.

[brianf]

Look what I started.

Notice there are no 18 year old girly-girls who yack all the time on their daddy's dime. Every college capus has an assortment of them.

[Joe Baker]

Yeah, I think there's something wrong with my daughter. She has 500 minutes a month, but never uses more than a couple hundred. I have 300, but seldom use more than 200 (having it as a tool ain't the same as wearin' it out, after all!), so maybe my example actually influenced her in this one small way!

But it truly frightens me how many teenage girls I see cruising along 10 MPH or more over the speed limit with a cell phone on one ear. I'm sure some of them are able to relegate the cell phone to only surplus brain-share, but I'm just as certain that MOST of them are on the phone FIRST and driving SECOND.

I really wish someone would sell a short-range cell blocker that would just prevent a cell phone from working within about a 5-foot radius of the drivers seat when a car is in motion. I occasionally have a short conversation ("Hello?" "Honey, can you pick up milk?" "Yep. See you in 20 minutes." "Thanks. Bye." "Bye.") while driving, but I'd be willing to give that up in order to get the people who are CONSTANTLY on the phone -- especially the young, inexperienced drivers, but also the salesmen who are trying to work up proposals or shuffle through papers while they're driving and talking on the phone -- to shut up and pay attention to the road!
______________________________
Joe Baker, who knows that SOME of what the cell-haters say is right on the money!

[ThomasDodd]

She has 500 minutes a month, but never uses more than a couple hundred. I have 300, but seldom use more than 200 (having it as a tool ain't the same as wearin' it out, after all!)

Wow:!:

My phone is a prepaid phone. I get the 1year card with about 350 (local) minutes. In the past 3 years I've never used up the minutes before the year. And most usage is in ROAM mode, where the time counts double. I had over 100 minutes left in December when I renewed the year.

I cannot imagine talking 200 minutes a month when I'm not near a land land line.

[Joe Baker]

She has 500 minutes a month, but never uses more than a couple hundred. I have 300, but seldom use more than 200 (having it as a tool ain't the same as wearin' it out, after all!)

Wow:!:

My phone is a prepaid phone. I get the 1year card with about 350 (local) minutes. In the past 3 years I've never used up the minutes before the year. And most usage is in ROAM mode, where the time counts double. I had over 100 minutes left in December when I renewed the year.

I cannot imagine talking 200 minutes a month when I'm not near a land land line.

Who says I'm not near a land line?

I don't monitor it that closely, but I'd estimate that I use at least 100 of those minutes sitting at my desk at work. My job is in the telephony field, and for test purposes I frequently need more than the three phone lines I have at my desk, or a line that's outside of our corporate switch -- so I use my cell phone.

I also give my cell number to everyone instead of the home phone number, so I know for sure I'll at least hear any messages (sometimes the kids forget to relay a message, or get it wrong), so when the kids' school calls, or someone from the church, or from my band, it's on the cell phone. More often than not, these calls arrive when I'm sitting in a room with a land line.

I also do all of my personal long distance on cell, since I get "free" long distance (yes, of course I'm paying for it; but my monthly fee covers a certain number of minutes without regard for whether they're local or long distance), so if I want to chat with family or friends in Texas -- not often, as I'm not much of a chatter -- I use the cell phone.

I'd estimate I make maybe an hour per month of calls from outside my home or office. Half of those could easily wait, but there's no reason to wait so I don't. The other half save my time, my money, or my butt, and make my monthly cell-phone bill worthwhile.

Your mileage may vary.
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who has been saved many a 45-minute trip "back out" because he learned of the need before getting home.

[brianf]

Greetings from Sin City.

Happenned again!!! I did a lecture this morning told everyone to turn off their cells, even turned mine off in front of everyone and, you guessed it. Someone's cell rang!! Basically told them to take a hike! Then I found the cell phone zapper in my computer bag. Don't know if I zapped them off but that was the only call!

Could it have been Arnold calling? That would be the only acceptable excuse!

[MartyNeilan]

NOBODY is so damned important that they have to be on the phone all the f*ck*ng time. NOTHING is so important that it can't wait until later. If it's that important, you shouldn't be at a concert, recital, eating out, etc. You should be wherever the hell your attention needs to be. 20 years ago, people called when it was over, when they got to their destination, or when they got home. SOCIALIZE SOMEWHERE ELSE - HOW ABOUT IN PERSON!?! Bullshitting on your phone in a concert, a restaurant (at least have the courtesy to excuse yourself since you refuse to cut the bastard off), or a moving vehicle is disrespectful, rude, un-mannerly, unsafe (car) and worthy of a Texas *** whoopin. It is complete and utter DISREGARD for what is right, moral, ethical, as well as for your fellow human beings who ACTUALLY HAVE A LIFE!!!!!!
Doc

If you ever run for President, you have my vote, Doc.

[Pippen]

I've spent plenty of time badmouthing cell phones, mostly for the interruption that they bring and the rude manner in which many people use them. I have the prepaid plan with a few hundred minutes per year which is all I typically use and I nearly always turn my phone off or to silent in situations where it might be disruptive. However...

NOBODY is so damned important that they have to be on the phone all the f*ck*ng time. NOTHING is so important that it can't wait until later. If it's that important, you shouldn't be at a concert, recital, eating out, etc. You should be wherever the hell your attention needs to be.

I think it would be good to avoid broadsweeping statements such as this because there are a lot of different situations out there. Two years ago my elementary aged special needs child suffered from major school anxiety and before all was said and done he had serious separation anxiety from me as well. Add on a bad reaction to a medication trial and things were really, really bad around here. I was hardly able to get away as it was and when I did I had it on at *all* times to catch any calls from school or doctors. It was also a major help to my son to know that no matter where I was he could reach me on the cell phone. My sitting at home until the crisis passed wasn't an option--he needed to spend gradually increasing time away from me as part of the process of learning to function well again.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled cell phone grumble...

[ThomasDodd]

Those kind of people are to morals, ethics, and values like Etch-A-Sketch is to art.

Take it easy on the Etch-A-Sketch now. While I cannot draw with them (or a pencil) some can...



More

[Rick Denney]

I really don't understand that. Who would be required to be on call 24/7, and by law no less?

Anybody in law enforcement or emergency response, particularly in a small town where there are no backups. Being on call and being the first person called are not the same things. Many people are the emergency backup when others can't be reached. I know a number of people who serve in volunteer fire departments who are always on call. There are times when they are on the first response list, and other times when they are not, but if the disaster is bad enough they will all get called.

We used to handle (and still do where I live) such things with fire-call sirens. They are similar to tornado warning sirens in Tornado Alley. They can be heard everywhere in the county. When I'm outside working (unless I'm running power equipment), I hear the sirens several times a day.

Before cell phones were popular, doctors who were on call could still go to the symphony. They would leave their pager (with their seat number) with the symphony staff. If they were paged, an usher would come collect them.

Brian's approach to reminding everyone to turn off their ringers is good and I do the same thing when I teach. When I first have everyone's attention, I pull my phone out, push some buttons, and say, "Yep, mine's now in silent mode" and then look suggestively around the class. Since I teach adults, they get the hint and I see them turning off their ringers. With college kids and teens I would have to be more direct. But the folks that I teach work in the public sector and have emergency responsibilities, and I understand if they look down to their phone, realize they have to respond, and leave the class hurriedly.

We may hate cell phones, but our bosses love them, and, like Chuck says, you can't unring a bell. Jamming is not the answer, especially without disclosure, but I find that the hills in our area provide effective enough jamming in many places anyway.

Regarding Chuck's claim that we no longer know our neighbors because of technology, I would say that the principle technology affecting this is air-conditioning, followed distantly by television. Houses are shut up and people don't sit on the porch any more. Families don't go for walks in the neighborhood "to get some fresh air". There are other changes, too, that have nothing to do with technology. Mothers no longer work at the sink, with the kitchen facing the front yard to keep an eye on the kids while they play--now they play in the fenced back yard to keep them safe, or they play at the day-care center while the mother is still at work. We no longer have the random and repeated encounters caused by having to get out of the house to keep from melting in the summer--those are the encounters that foster everyone knowing everyone else, even if they are not and don't need to be close friends.

Country people are more apt to know their neighbors than city people, by my observation. They spend more time outdoors, and they often share resources because making another trip into town is too time-consuming. And they tend not to be jammed so close together that they have no seclusion from which a little social contact seems a pleasant diversion.

Rick "who knows all his neighbors" Denney

[Rick Denney]

--Chuck "who politely listened to 10 minute telemarketing pitch by an RNCC worker extending an invitiation to meet the President and the postition of Honorary Chairman of the Oregon Small Business Republican Alliance for only $1500, before he suggested that they could certainly find a better Honorary Chairman than a registered Democrat"(G)

And here the RNC guy was extending his hand in a gesture of openness, and you bat it away based on pure partisanship.

Rick "who lives in a state where party registration is not required" Denney

[ThomasDodd]

I really don't understand that. Who would be required to be on call 24/7, and by law no less?

Anybody in law enforcement or emergency response, particularly in a small town where there are no backups.

Would a vibrating pager not be just as effective?

Before cell phones were popular, doctors who were on call could still go to the symphony. They would leave their pager (with their seat number) with the symphony staff. If they were paged, an usher would come collect them.

Perhaps similar methods should be used with cell phones? And I never said jammwithout wrning. What would be great is a jammer that only covered the hall/room in question. And a warning sign at the entry. Leave the phone/pager outside and you can be notified, or bring it in and it won't work.

The problem is that everyone and his mother thinks they are so important and there call must be answered. And few have the curtousy tio turn the damned thing off when it should be off/slient.

Some technology is needed too. So that missed calles are recorded and announced later. When I turn my phone on, in about 30 secons it will beep telling me I have a voice message. Missed call info could be stored and updated the same way. So when you come out, and are out of range of the jammer, you get notified of any missed calls.

[Rick Denney]

Joe, I salute your open-mindedness and willingness to extend your reach in the world. Unfortunately, most people aren't as tolerant and involved as you are--and it's much easier to be close-minded in today's world.

I wonder how many of your doctor "buddies" are Democrats. I'll bet you know that answer, heh, heh.

We have a lot of the same thing around here. When the typical neighborhood 1200-square-foot split rambler with a one-car garage sells for $400,000 (and we are 50 miles out from DC), you will get gross disparity of economic class in neighborhoods.

Our circle of friends includes an insurance adjuster, a CIA logistics officer, the owner of a local car dealership, a botanist at the Smithsonian, a cabinet maker, a sheet-rock contractor, a restaurant owner, a school teacher, and so on. Few have the same spiritual beliefs we do, and we don't go to them for spiritual advice. We also have church acquaintances, but none that are close friends. In all, I would say that we took our friends pretty much as they came.

Of my three oldest and best friends, one I met in church, one I met at work, and one I met playing the tuba.

It would not appear to me that Joe is quite as much a departure from the normal evangelical Christian as your preception.

We have our closed communities, too. One is a small village near us that is more a history theme park than a place to live. The town is known by the local for its high percentage of alcoholics, for it's highly cliquish local politics, for the exercise of extreme control over what anyone may do to the house they own, for its hatred of people who live just beyond the borders of the village (including those of us who are forced by geography to drive through their precious village--that they will not allow to be bypassed), and for the high percentage of bumper stickers on the backs of large SUV's touting whatever liberal Democrat is in favor at the moment. The point is this: They walk around and know each other, but if you are outside the group, you are considered evil. I've had doors slammed in my face at the post office there (it's the post office that serves my address even though I don't live in the village), I've had dirty looks from people who eschew the perfectly good sidewalk to walk their dogs in the middle of the street, at night, and who gesture at me and my headlights, which are on high beams because they can't be bothered to wear anything but black, it seems, and I don't want to run them down. They consistently work regional politics to get the best grants to do history-oriented things that also happen to improve the value of their $500K-$1M log and stone houses. These people hate technology--they are the reason we have no broadband capability in our part of the county, and getting a good television on that side of the hill requires an antenna tower they would not allow. Personally, I think a little technology and some isolation would help them out.

Rick "who has been to Chuck's house and thinks the starter castles must be pretty impressive to make Chuck's bundle of sticks look like the low-rent part of the neighborhood" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Would a vibrating pager not be just as effective?

How is that different from a vibrating cell phone?

We have to acknowledge that while cell phones are annoying, they can also be life-saving. The reason emergency response folks use them is because they are sometimes needed. In small towns and rural areas, people have to wear more than one hat. When someone's house is on fire or they are having a heart attack, you are glad that the responder can be reached. If a tornado rips through town, then you are glad they can ALL be reached. Remember that Tom live in Arkansas--which last I checked was in Tornado Alley. We had a tornado rip through our county here in Virginia last September, and everyone had to pitch in. Why was everyone outside? Because the power was out and the houses, which were designed for air conditioning, were too hot and stuffy.

We complain that cell phone users are so wrapped up in their personal reality that they are oblivious to others, but I find that many who complain about cell phones users (including those who use them legitimately and courteously) are offended because their personal reality was invaded. I think the solution is not a ban (however localized) on cell phones, but rather that people stop being so selfish.

Rick "who suspects nobody was annoyed 60 years ago when volunteer firefighters left the summer band concert--from both audience and band--when the sirens went off" Denney

[Joe Baker]

Would a vibrating pager not be just as effective?

How is that different from a vibrating cell phone?

Easy. Pagers are good (tools of the noble working man); cell phones are evil (toys of rich %*@&'s).
___________________________
Joe Baker, who picked up on that right away.