what does 24AW stand for?

[k001k47]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Conn-Helleburg- ... 3f22d8843e

[daytontuba]

There is no perfect mouthpiece for everyone, but I think there is a magic combination. Combine the right mouthpiece, with the right horn, and the right player - and there you go. Not every mouthpiece matches every horn, and certainly not every player will get the same results given any combination of horns/mouthpieces. I just remember that the important thing is what the ears hear - not what the eyes see - that counts.

[Lee Stofer]

This is purely anecdotal, have no idea if it is true. If anyone knows for sure, please indicate whether this is urban legend or truth.

I was once told that the Bach 24AW tuba mouthpiece was originally developed for the U.S. Army Band(yes, most likely Pershing's Own), to use for the Inaugural Parades they have to do each 4 years. The teller went on to say that the idea behind the mouthpiece was to provide a medium, not-too-large mouthpiece with a deep cup that would provide a dark sound, not-too-much volume (after all they march 9 sousaphones), and a cushy, fat rim to protect the player's chops out on the streets of DC.

Fact or fiction - does anyone know?

[Sidanas]

The 24AW is a really good mouthpiece in my opinion; the reason for what it is thrown away in the trash is due to the narrow rim. But with some practice you can get good results with it. I’m using a 24AW on the Bb (King 2341) and I find that it helps me get a really nice sound. In order to make it work the best you must not push the air or empty your lungs in 4 seconds, it needs relax and a very well focused embouchure, like concentrating the stream in one small point instead of thinking “broad and broad”. That’s for me the only way to make it sound the best. I hope this helps.

[Donn]

Someone commented in another thread that a bach 18 was a beginner mouthpiece.

Is there such a thing? There may be mouthpieces that are not good for beginners, plenty of them, but I propose that nothing about a tuba mouthpiece that's good for a beginner, is not also good for players at all levels. A mouthpiece that's good for many beginners - popular school band stock mouthpieces - will be good for many players at all levels.

As for the numbers ... inverse relation with diameter suggests to me some kind of gauge, but right off hand I can't see the pattern. They may have started with gauges, and then gave up on that but kept the ordering principle.

[tclements]

The crappiest mouthpiece ever invented.

[UDELBR]

Warren Deck 'got by' with a 24AW. No slouch, IMHO.

[iiipopes]

Ohhh ok. I always thought it meant a waste of money!

As goofy as these are, many of our bad-teeth across-the-pond cousins find ways to force them to make nice sounds.

Indeed. They are very popular with the Eb tuba players in brass bands.

[GC]

This mouthpiece is an outlier. It has a fairly narrow, deep cup, an unusually wide cushiony rim, and a huge bore and throat for the size of the cup. Whatever the philosophy was behind its design, there are people for whom it works very well, and people who abhor it and don't play well with it. It has its imitators and attempts to improve it, like the Wick 3 and 3L.

Use it if it works for you. Don't if it doesn't. That seems simple enough.

[Donn]

If you went to the glovebox and found no spare mouthpiece, and had to make a mouthpiece on the spot, out of a potato, what are the odds it would be better than a 24AW? Assume that the gig mostly involve rests, so physical comfort of the two mouthpiece materials isn't super important.

[Donn]

OK, you can use a sweet potato if you prefer.

[Donn]

I can't speak to bloke's skills in that medium, but for me I'm sure it would be a challenge. On the other hand, it seems like a potential useful skill. Maybe it would be a fun contest, like an event at one of those big shows people go to. Or it could be part of the symphony orchestra audition process. I think you'd have to allow some other common item in the manufacturing process - a pencil or something, I don't know. Most pocket knife blades are too broad to cut a bore, so you'd have to use the knife and pencil to fabricate a bore drill. Maybe it would be better if we suppose that the unfortunate tuba player can reasonably easily procure a 5/16 twist bit, so the specific terms would be make a functional tuba mouthpiece out of a potato, or tuber of your choice, with a pocket knife and one commonly available drill bit.

[J.c. Sherman]

Ohhh ok. I always thought it meant a waste of money!

Ditto

[Dan Bradley]

It's neat to finally find out what the AW means. I never took the time (30 seconds of my life) to google it. As mentioned earlier, I have heard that Warren Deck was a 24AW guy and that his Orfeo mouthpieces from the 90's were somewhat based on the 24AW. This is hearsay, so it could be inaccurate.

In regards to Ron Bishop, I don't know if he played a Bach 18 or not back in the day. When I studied with him, he used a Doug Elliot. He did express love for the Bach 7, and he's definitely playing a Bach in some of those old pictures, but who knows.

I personally used the Perantucci PT-24 for many years that was based on the 24AW. It had the same super-wide/cushioned/rounded rim with the deep cup and HUGE throat. I used the mouthpiece on CC and F tubas, and it worked very well. The reason I eventually switched off is that I wanted to use a mouthpiece with a throat that wasn't so huge...it is like over 9mm! I am very sensitive to sharp rims, so it worked well, and you can still get a deep sound, even with the semi-narrow diameter.

Like Bach mouthpieces for other brass, many instrument companies make knockoffs with the same model number that are generally pretty bad. I know that my first tuba, a Cerveny BBb, came with a ripoff 24AW.

I think the 24AW is a good mouthpiece for someone with a shortish upper lip/lower lip. I had a lot of problems with the mouthpiece rubbing my nose and chin due to my facial structure, and this helped a lot (rather, the PT-24 did)...which makes me think that Army Band marching story could actually be true.


Cheers,
Dan Bradley
VA

[Donn]

I think the 24AW is a good mouthpiece for someone with a shortish upper lip/lower lip. I had a lot of problems with the mouthpiece rubbing my nose and chin due to my facial structure, and this helped a lot (rather, the PT-24 did)...which makes me think that Army Band marching story could actually be true.

Sorry, I didn't follow that. Could you look it over, and see if there's some mistake? Bumping against the nose is a problem, right? A mouthpiece with a narrow rim is the answer, is that what you're saying?

The moral of the Army marching band story, for me, was that a big throat doesn't support blatting, so 9 sousaphones are more likely to sound sound like music, not strident flatulence.

[J.c. Sherman]

It's neat to finally find out what the AW means. I never took the time (30 seconds of my life) to google it. As mentioned earlier, I have heard that Warren Deck was a 24AW guy and that his Orfeo mouthpieces from the 90's were somewhat based on the 24AW. This is hearsay, so it could be inaccurate.

In regards to Ron Bishop, I don't know if he played a Bach 18 or not back in the day. When I studied with him, he used a Doug Elliot. He did express love for the Bach 7, and he's definitely playing a Bach in some of those old pictures, but who knows.

I personally used the Perantucci PT-24 for many years that was based on the 24AW. It had the same super-wide/cushioned/rounded rim with the deep cup and HUGE throat. I used the mouthpiece on CC and F tubas, and it worked very well. The reason I eventually switched off is that I wanted to use a mouthpiece with a throat that wasn't so huge...it is like over 9mm! I am very sensitive to sharp rims, so it worked well, and you can still get a deep sound, even with the semi-narrow diameter.

Like Bach mouthpieces for other brass, many instrument companies make knockoffs with the same model number that are generally pretty bad. I know that my first tuba, a Cerveny BBb, came with a ripoff 24AW.

I think the 24AW is a good mouthpiece for someone with a shortish upper lip/lower lip. I had a lot of problems with the mouthpiece rubbing my nose and chin due to my facial structure, and this helped a lot (rather, the PT-24 did)...which makes me think that Army Band marching story could actually be true.


Cheers,
Dan Bradley
VA

Mr. Bishop used a Bach 7 (NY) for much of his time in TCO, especially on the Alex with Ed Anderson. He began experimenting with the Doug Elliott's in the 90s to shallow out a little, and even did some time on his axes with a Miraphone C4 (pre-TU-23). For the last several years, he settled on a DEG Nylon... these were made in two sizes, though never marked or marketed as such. One is close to a Bach 12, the other a copy of the 25 (the modern ones are like that). The big ones are hard to find. FWM didn't like the mouthpiece, so Bishop spray-painted it silver Problem solved.

[iiipopes]

If you went to the glovebox and found no spare mouthpiece, and had to make a mouthpiece on the spot, out of a potato, what are the odds it would be better than a 24AW? Assume that the gig mostly involve rests, so physical comfort of the two mouthpiece materials isn't super important.

If a yankee buzzed on a 24AW in the woods - and no southerner heard them do it - would the union intervene ?

No, but since Missouri was a split state, the Fountain City Brass Band might!

[iiipopes]

I can't speak to bloke's skills in that medium, but for me I'm sure it would be a challenge. On the other hand, it seems like a potential useful skill. Maybe it would be a fun contest, like an event at one of those big shows people go to. Or it could be part of the symphony orchestra audition process. I think you'd have to allow some other common item in the manufacturing process - a pencil or something, I don't know. Most pocket knife blades are too broad to cut a bore, so you'd have to use the knife and pencil to fabricate a bore drill. Maybe it would be better if we suppose that the unfortunate tuba player can reasonably easily procure a 5/16 twist bit, so the specific terms would be make a functional tuba mouthpiece out of a potato, or tuber of your choice, with a pocket knife and one commonly available drill bit.

The pen blade of a standard Case pocket knife is narrow enough to cut the throat.