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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:27 pm

bort wrote:Marty, there is one at BBC, and a less expensive one at Dillon music right now.

What is your budget?

About 2 grand and under. Kinda rules out a lot of things.
Surprisingly enough, a goldbrass "Miraclone" does check a lot of the right boxes and keeps getting better every year, but I am also looking as to what else there may be. The 188's that I tried (admittedly two decades ago) still had too much of the chainsaw/tearing brass sound that the 186 can possess.

And, I may decide to keep what I have now: the very big and resonant "BART" project and the Wessex "solo" EEb which is a very decent solo, quintet, and small ensemble tuba. With a wide range of mouthpiece changes the "solo" EEb can cover a lot of ground from small-medium contrabass to F tuba, and doesn't prematurely edge out. There does seem to be a definite "ceiling" on the amount of sound it can put out, though. Delacqering it helped the response tremendously and gave it a little more color and punch - it was literally like unwrapping it from thin packing tape. From darkness to brightness on the solo EEb, I have been using the Warbutron-Neilan, Wessex Helleberg, Baer CC, Baer F, and Baer Beltane.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Doc » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:34 pm

What about something like a Mack Brass 210? Generous size without being unwieldy, under budget, and Tom has a super return policy if it’s not the right fit. Or a 200?
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby pjv » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 pm

The 191 could be a very satisfying investment. (I personally am not crazy about the gold brass versions). I noticed a huge playing difference between the 4v and the 5v (191A and 191B), the A playing much more open. I've spoken to a player on this board who has had both and disagrees with my assessment.
So you know. But we'd both agree that these horns can play anything.

The nice thing about the modern Miraphones is that their rotary valves are super light and crazy quick. The 191 is maybe a 5/4 but it plays like a Ferarri.

I just purchased a Hagen 496 which is about 90% the same thing as a 191, just unwrapped a bit. I've noticed my BBb playing is much more precies on this tuba. This has to do (I believe) with the clarity of the Mira sound but also the valve action. The valves are always "on time" so they don't get in the way of where my lips want to vibrate (does this make sense?).

Anyway it's a very easy blow. I can play longer passages on this tuba then say on my 30's 163 Alex (a smaller tuba which is also very free blowing horn). So somethings happening with this tuba which makes my work easier.

I did a lot of tuba testing for the last 6 months before I chose this horn. Visited various shops and factories throughout Germany. The new top notch tubas out on the market are bringing things to the table that many vintage horns don't have; better intonation, easier to tune but still produce a note with a good core, a more consistent sound quality across all the registers, better valves, and much easier to play throughout all the registers.

In other words, it might be to your advantage to wait until you have more cash so you can purchase what you really want.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby bort » Mon Nov 05, 2018 12:38 pm

MartyNeilan wrote:I may be looking for something a little larger (not necessarily too much louder, but fatter/thicker) than a 186 but nothing huge. Rotors preferred. Low register must “pop” like a 186 or a Thor. BBb or CC doesn’t matter.
Open to any suggestions, but price is a major consideration.


Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby swillafew » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:57 pm

I have one on the market now, a B&S GR51 in very good condition with hard and soft cases. I am selling because I do my playing in small groups (F tubas there) , and have picked up trombone as a rival to the tuba for the main axe.

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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Frank Ortega » Wed Nov 07, 2018 10:18 am

Go for that Sander CC that's on the market.

I'm dying to play the Rotary Conn Orch Grand at Baltimore Brass, too!
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:08 pm

Frank Ortega wrote:Go for that Sander CC that's on the market.

Frank!
Good to hear from you, buddy. I have been ogling it, but my concern would be how well it would hold up to daily use considering the age. The massive BART project horn is definitely fragile and I would need something durable.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby toobagrowl » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:00 pm

bloke wrote:
bort wrote:
Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986" target="_blank" target="_blank


I believe I would probably (??) pick a fine example of one of those over (very specifically) a 186-BB.


I'd also pick the B&S 101/'Sonora' over the Mira 186 :!: I'm not sure it is much 'fatter' in tone than the Mira 186, but the B&S (and clone) is definitely deeper/darker in tone. And it has similarly good response, pitch and build :tuba: Oddly overlooked on here for other models, but there are a few players here who own/enjoy it. I'd seriously buy one if I had the extra money.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Doc » Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm

toobagrowl wrote:
bloke wrote:
bort wrote:
Marty -- how about this one?

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=89986" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank


I believe I would probably (??) pick a fine example of one of those over (very specifically) a 186-BB.


I'd also pick the B&S 101/'Sonora' over the Mira 186 :!: I'm not sure it is much 'fatter' in tone than the Mira 186, but the B&S (and clone) is definitely deeper/darker in tone. And it has similarly good response, pitch and build :tuba: Oddly overlooked on here for other models, but there are a few players here who own/enjoy it. I'd seriously buy one if I had the extra money.


These are solid instruments, IMHO. I’d love to have one. The price is right, and we all know the seller.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby russiantuba » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:47 pm

Marty,

What are your thoughts on a Cerveny Piggy?
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby bort » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:14 pm

^ There's one for $1800 at BBC right now.

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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Levaix » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:03 pm

I considered mentioning the B&S stencil, but as much as I'm enjoying mine post-play conditioning it's definitely not bigger than a 186. (Disclaimer: going from memory when I sat next to a 186 player for a semester)
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:19 pm

I think I have narrowed it down to a 5 valve CC, if that helps. Max price point around 2,000.
To recap - wanted - all the good of a 186, but with a higher threshold for "breaking" and a potentially darker sound.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby toobagrowl » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:19 am

MartyNeilan wrote:I think I have narrowed it down to a 5 valve CC, if that helps. Max price point around 2,000.
:shock: Pretty ambitious demand for that price....
That said, you may be able to get a used full-sized Chinese-made M&M or Schiller 5v CC tuba for about that price.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MaryAnn » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:37 am

pjv said: "The valves are always "on time" so they don't get in the way of where my lips want to vibrate (does this make sense?)."

Yes. I noticed it particularly in changing to different (French) horns....the lever throws are different and I had to adjust to the different timing of when the valve was fully open so that I didn't clam. It was interesting. It's just one of those things that you adjust to.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby Alecgrinage » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:22 am

Alexander 163
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:53 pm

the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.

Just got one (actually a detachable bell 33.) Checks all the right boxes, and one of those horns that the more I start playing it, the more I like it. Been almost a year since my first post in this thread so I had a little more budget to work with.
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Re: Looking for instrument ideas

Postby MartyNeilan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:36 am

bloke wrote:
MartyNeilan wrote:
the elephant wrote:Meinl-Weston 32 - CC, 5 valves, 186 size with a sound more like a 188, reasonable intonation, don't fetch too much on the used market. BUT there are not that many on the market to begin with. Heavy, built like a tank.

Just got one (actually a detachable bell 33.) Checks all the right boxes, and one of those horns that the more I start playing it, the more I like it. Been almost a year since my first post in this thread so I had a little more budget to work with.


If heading west (and have room in your car) bring it along and stop by for a meal.
I'm not looking to work on it. :arrow: I'd just like to see it.

btw...
I'm sorry I could not help you (years ago) with that crumbling bell on that 6/4 project of yours. I was just afraid that if I (or anyone) did anything to it, it would do little more than crumble even more.

Thanks for the offer Joe! I went about 5.5 hours east instead for the MW and will be heading back today. I had “Village Tinker” Dan rework that big horn last year. He pulled a garland off an old 186 recording bell and it fit that beast perfectly. Still fragile, but holds it all together and the extra mass helps with sympathetic vibrations. The next time I am in that area I would love to stop by with the MW 33.
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