Mack Brass Valve Section Swap Bookmark and Share

Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby Scrub » Mon Dec 31, 2018 2:45 am

Howdy folks,

First post on the TubeNet! Here goes:

My current horn is a Mack Brass 410 CC. It's great, I like it, it's a tuba. However, the valves are unsurprisingly Chinese. They work, albeit very loudly and tend to unwork themselves frequently. I quickly replaced the synthetic bumpers with neoprene a month after puchase, as I sort of sliced them in half by just using them. :oops: Never had that problem before.

Anyway, if I can avoid it, I don't want to invest in a new instrument. I happen to really like the way this one responds and how well intonated it naturally is. I just get frustrated any time I practice because the valves clank and unwork at least once a week. I want to upgrade this instrument with a set of German Miraphone 186 valves.

My questions are:

Does anyone have experience with this?

How did it turn out?

Which year of a 186 swaps most easily?

Did you swap an entire valve section, or just the likages?

Are the valves interchangeable between casings?

Should I bother?

Am I crazy?

How do you get better at low notes?


But really, if there is some other forum, or if I'm better off saving up for a used 186, I'm all ears. Thanks a bunch!

:tuba:
Scrub
lurker
lurker
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:01 pm

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby bloke » Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:23 am

- play
- save money
- sell
- buy a new-or-used 186
- play
User avatar
bloke
musician/technician/innovator
musician/technician/innovator
 
Posts: 44797
Joined: Sat May 08, 2004 6:04 pm
Location: western Tennessee

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby Stryk » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:43 pm

bloke wrote:- play
- save money
- sell
- buy a new-or-used 186
- play


Buy a used one - the 80s on ones are not so great IMO.
Terry Stryker
Alexander 163 BBb
Amati Kraslice 481 C
Mirafone 184 C
Mirafone186 C
Mirafone186 BBb
Lyon & Healy 1904 C
Kane Stealth C
Other non-descript tuba fodder
User avatar
Stryk
Retired Educator
Retired Educator
 
Posts: 2235
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:55 pm
Location: Panama City, Florida

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby Heliconer » Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:50 am

I have a beautiful old 186 that needs a new home...
A bunch of metal fart noise machines
User avatar
Heliconer
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 216
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:30 am

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby the elephant » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:12 am

Heliconer wrote:I have a beautiful old 186 that needs a new home...


Do you have an ad for it in For Sale by Owner? Is it BBb for CC? (He has a CC.) What year was it made? Price? Post a link to your ad or make an ad and link it here.
Soft soldering outdoors in a heavy wind sucks. There. I said it.
User avatar
the elephant
Papa Legba
Papa Legba
 
Posts: 14278
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:38 pm
Location: 404 Not Found

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby LibraryMark » Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:43 pm

The valves on my 410 make a lot of noise, too - the first valve especially. They are a lot quieter after I oil them. I replaced the (quickly) worn out stops with cork and that helped. I think that this horn needs to have a more robust link and ball system. When I first got it, I was shocked at how thin the link rods are - they look like they are made out of coat hanger wire, but they seem to work.

If I keep mine, I will someday be trying to rework it using better parts. But what do you want for a $2K horn?
VMI 3302 BBb
Mack Brass TU410S CC
John Packer JP377 Eb
LibraryMark
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: SW Michigan

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby Tubajug » Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:28 pm

LibraryMark wrote:But what do you want for a $2K horn?


Bingo.
Jordan
King 2341 with a Holton "Monster" Eb bell
Eb Frankentuba in progress
Martin Medium Eb Helicon

Used to own, but still a fun thread: Lyon & Healy Eb

If at first you don't succeed, skydiving's probably not for you.
User avatar
Tubajug
5 valves
5 valves
 
Posts: 1661
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:23 pm
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby iiipopes » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:07 pm

bloke wrote:- play
- save money
- sell
- buy a new-or-used 186
- play

What bloke said.
"Bessophone" w/ 2-piece Imperial Blokepiece,
Lexan 32.6 Modified Helleberg rim & modified .080 extender
Wessex BR115 & B&H 3-valve comp w/ Wick Ultra SMB6
King Super 20 trumpet w/ Bach 3C/76
Fanned fret bass and electric guitars
User avatar
iiipopes
Utility Infielder
Utility Infielder
 
Posts: 8185
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:10 am

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby The Big Ben » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:18 pm

LibraryMark wrote:If I keep mine, I will someday be trying to rework it using better parts. But what do you want for a $2K horn?


Yes. "It is what it is". If you have skills and can do the work yourself, changing out a valve set might make financial sense. The Elephant has one of these and has tuned it to how he likes it but he has the skills. I have no guess how much a full treatment would cost if an owner hired it done.
User avatar
The Big Ben
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Port Townsend, WA

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby The Big Ben » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:25 pm

Scrub wrote:How do you get better at low notes?


Play lots of them. I've started at about CC, played long tones (about 15 counts @ 60 per note) and went down chromatically until the lip and lungs ran out of gas. I did it again. This makes a pretty good 15 min. warm up for me. Keep doing it until you can go down as low as you need to do. Others may have hints but that is what I do. It has helped considerably on the low notes.
User avatar
The Big Ben
6 valves
6 valves
 
Posts: 3104
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:54 pm
Location: Port Townsend, WA

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby BopEuph » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:17 pm

The Big Ben wrote:Keep doing it until you can go down as low as you need to do.


And then keep going. I thought I'd work down to E since I just have a 12J, but I've found that the false tones work surprisingly well on the horn, and they are only making the low E sound way better.

One of the best things to happen to me is that I was just getting a good sound on my 12J a couple years ago, and a sousaphone audition at Disney came up. I borrowed a sousaphone about 5 days out, and could not get lower than Bb to save my life. I spent probably 10 hours a day on that horn, mostly working on my low notes since I had a solid audition worked out, and it started to coalesce by the second day.

I made it to the final round in that audition, but didn't get called. The coolest thing, though, is the work only made my low range that much more solid.
BopEuph
pro musician
pro musician
 
Posts: 623
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:51 am
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Mack Brass Valve Section Swap

Postby LibraryMark » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:40 pm

I just discovered today that what is making the most noise is the side of the ball joint slapping the side of part that slips over the rotor shaft. I think it's been covered here before. Strikes me as a very poor design. I did make it quieter by putting the ball joint on the paddle end on the other side of the paddle creating more room between the ball joint and the rotor shaft.
VMI 3302 BBb
Mack Brass TU410S CC
John Packer JP377 Eb
LibraryMark
bugler
bugler
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:26 pm
Location: SW Michigan


Return to Repair, Modification, and Construction

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TubaDude and 0 guests