Holton "Harvey Phillips" Vs MW-25

[TubaSteve]

In the local concert band that I play in, one of the other tubist plays a new CC Holton Harvey Phillips model tuba. The other tubist and I both play MW-25's. I play between these two guys and have to try to blend my sound with both of them. I have to say that some of the sound from the CC really clashes with me. I can't tell if he is missing some of the fingerings or is the sound of the horns that far off. He used to play his Mirafone 186 BB and I loved the way that horn played and sounded with our group. Of course there is no problem with the other MW-25, and I have never had any issues with blending in with others, but this CC just doesn't seem to fit. Has anyone played one of these? Any ideas? He is a good tubist, and has many years of playing.

I see that there isn't too many here who play a MW-25, I don't know why it doesn't seem to have much of a following here, but I love the horn.

[Tubaryan12]

I see that there isn't too many here who play a MW-25, I don't know why it doesn't seem to have much of a following here, but I love the horn.

I love the horn as well. I just haven't saved enough pennies to buy one yet. Most quotes I can remember as to the few that said they didn't like the horn was because the sound was too "dark". That is what I like the most about the horn.

[Uncle Buck]

A little more detail would help. During most of your explanation, it seems like you are describing an intonation issue, or a tonal quality issue.

However, your speculation that the player of the Holton may be missing fingerings indicates that the problem may be more simple - wrong notes.

Before anybody can suggest a solution, we would need to know which problem exists:

problems blending tone (I really doubt this is the problem, and if it is, the solutions will be complex and subtle)

intonation problems (possibly, because "problem" notes for intonation are different on CC and BBb tubas - this is more likely to be a CC/BBb issue, rather than a Holton/Meinl Weston issue)

wrong notes (if this is the problem, the CC player needs some wood-shedding, or maybe he wasn't ready to start playing his CC in the band).

[TubaSteve]

That's what I was wondering. I have never played alongside a CC before, and I didn't know if there is some CC/BB issues. As I said, this gentleman has been playing for some time and is technicaly superior to me, although he has only been on the CC for a year. I am sure that he would be offended if I suggested that he was missing notes. I started playing 32 years ago, so I am not new to this either. I just have never had this experience before. Over the years, I have had many people complement me on my great sound, that I feel that it is one of my strengths. (I started out on trombone, and my first music teacher, who was a tuba major, had me switch to tuba. The first thing he said was, "That's the horn for you", "you sound great". In a brass band that I sometimes play with, we have a couple of EEb that play with the BBb's and that of course works great. Thanks folks for your insight!

[dmmorris]

Perhaps a couple of section rehersals would expose the issues.

There may be a couple of probable intonation differences between the MW-25s and the Holton CCs....like both low and mid-staff C, B natural, D, Db, Gb to name a couple of potential suspects.

I have had intonation problems with the couple of MW-25's I have tried and some were better than others. I not proposing that your MW-25 is off, but if you got together and played just as a section with a common goal of putting down a unified sound, then some of the issues/problems may surface more easily so you could fix 'em.

Kind regards,
dmm

[cjk]

The last Harvey Holton CC I played had wacky 3rd and 5th partials. The third was quite sharp (i think, don't recall exactly, mighta been way flat) and the fifth was quite flat.

[Allen]

It sounds like an intonation issue to me. The attitude you have implied (you are not assuming it's the other guy's fault) is a great basis for solving the problem.

First, check your intonation alone with a tuner. Don't play watching the needle. Close your eyes, hit a note, then open your eyes and check the tuner's opinion. Now, you know how well you are doing, and whether you should be doing more work yourself.

Next, tell your CC-playing colleague that you are having trouble matching pitches with him and ask him for some help. Bring out a tuner, and try playing slow scales, both together and individually. Ask your colleague what he thinks. With a spirit of cooperation, you both can probably improve. Use your own judgement as to the best time to involve the third player.

My own experience in switching from BBb to CC tuba was that within one week I had learned the fingerings, within two weeks I was comfortable with them, and within a month it was totally automatic.

I play a MW32 tuba, which I am told is the 5-valve CC version of the MW25 tuba. Although its intonation is generally good, the F below the staff (fingered 1) wants to be rather sharp, and there are a few other notes that need small corrections. My solution is to pull the 1st valve slide for that F, although I simply lip it into tune when playing quickly. It's a great horn; it helps me implement my own sound concept.

Allen Walker

[Chuck(G)]

Do you mean this new model of the MW-25?

http://www.brookmays.com/prod_disp.aspx ... 000&brand=

[Kevin Miller]

I have played in bands with various combinations of Eb, CC, BBb and have not encountered any problems related to the key of each instrument. I sometimes play tuba quartet gigs with Bb euphs, Eb tuba, and F tuba and blend and intonation are not affected by instrument key.

If he has been playing BBb exclusively for most of his life and is trying to perform on a CC, he is probably just having difficulty with the new fingerings and he is missing notes.