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Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby DouglasJB » Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:41 pm

Just looking to see if there are any small (not travel size) Eb tubas made, the smallest one that comes to mind currently is the Miraphone 383 (Starlight). Any other small horns come to mind?
Meinl Weston 2141 Eb tuba
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Tubajug » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:09 pm

The one I'm building for myself... hehe :)
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby LCH3 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:25 pm

DouglasJB wrote:Just looking to see if there are any small (not travel size) Eb tubas made, the smallest one that comes to mind currently is the Miraphone 383 (Starlight). Any other small horns come to mind?


The Wessex Gnagey Eb (5 valve) is smaller - and lighter - than my Besson 982 (3+1).
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Donn » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:31 pm

A long shot, and if you can get it, it won't come cheap - Gronitz used to offer a 4P+1R Eb, likely still would make it for an interested party. I saw one in real life, and was surprised at how much smaller it was than I expected from the picture. Might be a good idea to confirm that with actual dimensions, though - and weight, if that's an issue.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby macbil » Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:41 am

I used to have one. Well built and made a big noise , much bigger and punchier than it's size suggested. Not sure if the new man will make you one but you might pick one up on a European E-Bay posting.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Mwtuba32 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:11 am

I had a St. Petersburg 4 valve EB that played very well. TE Carrie's a 5 valve version. I would assume that it is just as good.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Sousaswag » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:39 am

The smaller of the two Willson Eb's (3400C?) was a pretty awesome little horn. It plays similar to the MW2141 in my opinion. Monstrous low register and fairly decent high register from what I can remember. Definitely one to check out.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Jerryleejr » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:02 pm

You may want to see if the Besson 984 comes with a 5V option...
From the Besson website,
"The newer 984 model is a 983 that has been modified with a lighter 15 inch bell, a new receiver, leadpipe, valve block position, new stays and more."

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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby iiipopes » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:51 pm

Miraphone's predecessor Eb, 183, was a fairly light tuba. I used to have one. Try before you buy because the intonation characteristics can vary from horn to horn. TubaTinker used to have one that was great, mine was so-so.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Eflatdoubler » Fri Apr 19, 2019 1:47 am

Small in bore or bell? My Wessex Solo might be what you are looking for...
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby DouglasJB » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:16 am

Ideally something small bell and body. More just looking for something that might travel better for me. Does anyone know how the Gnagey compares in size to a 2141?
Meinl Weston 2141 Eb tuba
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby MaryAnn » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:42 am

I would have a compensator except that I literally cannot reach them. Therefore I have rotors....I played the Starlight and the Star, and unless you are doing only solo work, the light is going to be too light. I got the Star, and everyone here knows how much I like it. Mine is silver, a friend has one in lacquer, and neither of us can tell any significant difference between them.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby iiipopes » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:46 pm

Didn't Josef Lidl have a family of 3/4 rotary tubas in the various pitches, with .720 bore and 16 1/2 smaller throat bell, including Eb at one point? I see the BBb and CC, but not the Eb on their current web site.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Oldschooltuba » Fri May 03, 2019 8:50 am

Building my own also. All York parts. Taking a top action 3 valve to a front action 4 + 1. Just starting.

How do I port a pic on this?
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby Donn » Fri May 03, 2019 9:31 am

JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.


In addition to the issues mentioned above - as best I can make out, the YEB 321 is not a little tuba at all. I mean, it isn't as big as a 4/4 BBb, but for an Eb tuba it's about as big as they come. In terms of bugle size, like diameter 6 feet back from the bell end. I can only look at pictures, but it looks to me to be close to the size of MW 2141, York monster, etc.

Among current production Eb tubas, not much that's small. You can guess from the testimonials why - when the finest compliment is "plays like a big one" ... hm, why not just get a big one?
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby toobagrowl » Fri May 03, 2019 3:51 pm

JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.

Mark Finley wrote:they did, but it had two problems. First, the 5th valve was only a long half step, which is next to useless, and 2nd it was dependent on the 4th valve loop, which some people didn't like. Not to mention that some people just don't like upright valve instruments.


A long/flat-half-step 5th valve would just mean you play everything in the lower register down a half-step from the conventional flat-whole-step 5th valve. So low F would now be 5+1+3+4 instead of 5+2+3+4. Unconventional maybe, but not a big deal. You'd set your 4th and 5th slides for best low register intonation.

Yet I see noone here bitch about the weird M3 (2+3) 5th valve setup on old Mirafones :roll:

Donn wrote:
JCRaymo wrote:Didn't yamaha offer a 5th valve add on for their small 4 valve top action Eb? Never played one but I have heard they were really nice playing little tubas with a bigger sound than you would think.


In addition to the issues mentioned above - as best I can make out, the YEB 321 is not a little tuba at all. I mean, it isn't as big as a 4/4 BBb, but for an Eb tuba it's about as big as they come. In terms of bugle size, like diameter 6 feet back from the bell end. I can only look at pictures, but it looks to me to be close to the size of MW 2141, York monster, etc.


Some may consider the YEB-321/381 a 'smallish' Eb tuba. I would not say "it's about as big as they come" regarding Eb tubas --> Smaller bell and valve bore than the large Wilson, Meinl and B&S Eb tubas; Smaller bell and outer bows than the old American 'Monster' Eb tubas made by York, Holton, Conn, and King :idea:
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby toobagrowl » Fri May 03, 2019 4:23 pm

Mark Finley wrote:Except you don't even get a low E if you have a flat 1/2 step valve, the lowest note you have is an F 12345. The fingering 1345 is very sharp.


I guess everyone 'blows' different in the lower register. But still, you set your 4th and 5th slides for the lower register. At least, that's what I do.
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Re: Small 5V Eb tuba

Postby 2ba4t » Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:54 am

There seem to be several smaller Ebs available as the fashion is gradually coming round to building narrower, punchier instruments.

Triggers solve nearly all tuning problems. In very fast passages nobody notices anyway! The compensating system of course solves only 1 + 4; 2 + 4 and 3 + 4. When you use 2 valves with the 4th you are again sharp. Triggers on 4,3 and 1st slides are much lighter and more accurate.

Wessex make their version of the old, old small bell Imperial Eb. If it as good as the originals it will be superb. Others of course make compact Ebs.

I am searching for a really good Miraphone 183 which I think has a singular, particularly rich, 'horn like' sound. I have a stable (below) I am now about to sell as I am retiring and emigrating. This has some small and very small Ebs. I hope to have a video made of each being played with close ups of all the defects. I am interested in swapping for a really good 183 or equivalent.

TUBAS (last figure is height)
1. Eb Hawkes 4v non-comp brass; vintage. wonderful ‘Eb euphonium’ sound. Excellent condition. 12 lbs 30” Perfect for child. (much smaller than the earliest Imperials)
2. Eb Boosey Solbron 4v comp SP Same as F Catelinet used for VW concerto excellent blower. SP in fair condition. 13.4lbs 29” Perfect for child. (much smaller than the earliest Imperials)
3. Eb Boosey & Hawkes 4v comp SP Same as F Catelinet used for VW concerto excellent blower. SP in fairly fair condition. 13.4lbs 29” [twin of above] Perfect for child.
4. Eb Miraphone 3v brass lac. excellent blower, good condition, few dings. Front and upright bell. 15lbs 42” I may put on 2 rotary valves from a dismantled 183.
5. Eb Miraphone 4v prob old 183 brass; excellent blower, few dings. Terrible lacquer – may sell rather than strip down, polish and lacquer.12.9lbs 40”
6. Eb Cverney 4v 641 brass lac. excellent blower, excellent condition, one or two tiny dings. 12.5 lbs 38”. Good Cerveny sound. Light, smooth
7. F Cverney 4v 641 brass lac. excellent blower, excellent condition, one or two tiny dings. With Eb crook - works perfectly as Eb - 12.7 lbs 38” Good Cerveny sound. Light, smooth
8. CC mini (Chinese?/custom) 4v brass lac excellent blower, few dings. Slight scratching on bell – dent removal. A tiny thing for a CC – looks like a small Eb. Very punchy esp 4th valve - with BBb crook works equally well as mini-BBb.17.5 lbs 34”
9. BBb Barth 4v old 6/4 brass Kaiser excellent blower. Few dents. Poor lacq. Scruffy but perfectly functional. 19.5lbs 42”
10. EEb Besson 983 excellent early model. Few dings. Beautiful blower. My professional horn – but just too heavy. 15.2 lbs 34”

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