Questions about doubling Euphonium.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

Hi Tuba Friends,
As I’m doing more and more teaching, I’m going to buy a ‘grown up’ euphonium because I’m really enjoying teaching and playing it. I don’t expect to gig on it unless I play a musical with a Tuba/Euph double, so I’m mostly doing this as a personal horn upgrade. I’ve mostly played the Yamaha 321’s for four valve horns, and I’m currently using a crappy old Olds 3 valve bell front. My question, finally, is, what is your preference and why, as a doubler, for a 3+1 or a 4 valve setup? I’ve tried both and haven’t come to a decision as to which I like best, and could happily go either way, but some input from the people of tubenet might help.
Thanks!
Peace
ASG

[Sousaswag]

I doubled for quite a while on a 3+1 euphonium and 4+1 BBb tuba. I like the 3+1 because the instrument is fully chromatic and switching between the two valve setups never posed a problem for me. YMMV. Some people like the 4v inline euphoniums because it's all in the right hand, and is similar to tubas, but in general I just prefer the 3+1 for euphoniums.

[Radar]

I've been getting by for decades on a Yamaha 321 with a receiver modified to accept a med/euro shank mouthpiece. If I were looking to upgrade though I would definately get a 3+1 Compensating system. It has been the standard for professional Euphonium setups for quite a while now.

[rodgeman]

There is a Euphonium forum which may help you decide. It is http://www.dwerden.com/forum/forum.php . Lots of good information including how a compensating system works. I have had the Yamaha 321, King 2280, and a Besson compensating euphonium . You can find good deals on some of the older Bessons as it was my favorite.

[Mark]

A lot of tuba and trombone pros have used the Yamaha 321 as a doubling instrument with great success. In the past, I think part of the reason they chose it was it's lower cost. Today there are some very affordable, good quality, 3+1 compensating euphoniums that are worth consideration. There is also the Wessex Festivo which might work nicely for a tuba player.

[bone-a-phone]

Yeah, the 2280 and Festivo are the ones I would recommend as well. 5280 offers several tuning options, and can be found used or new. There is also a Conn version with less of the mechanism. FESTIVO is essentially a Dulce with ergonomic and valve wrap improvements.

[Levaix]

Do you still have access to a 321? If so, my honest advice would be to stick with that or get something (most likely 3+1 compensating) on the next level. IMHO the 321 is essentially the entry point into the "true euphonium sound." I have heard good things about the John Packer euphoniums (and owning a JP Sterling baritone I would tend to believe them), but if you have a good example of a YEP-321 you will be hard pressed to find an objective sound improvement without jumping to one of the larger and more expensive brands (Willson, Besson, Adams, etc).

When I was first writing this reply I skimmed over the part where you said you're currently using a 3 valve Olds, so my above (edited) comments might not be 100% relevant. As a doubler in the other direction (primarily a euph player), I would say err on the side of 4 valves and compensating and don't worry too much about the fingering system; if you've been doing acrobatics with 5 valves on tuba, a 4 valve comp is going to be a breeze. In all honesty I'm one of the weird euphonium players that prefers a front valve setup, but you're going to have much more options with the traditional 3+1, and I have to begrudgingly admit that having the 4th valve on another finger does help with more technical passages.

(Slightly off topic, but when you do find the horn you're looking for, don't get too caught up on finding a true "euphonium" mouthpiece. Depending on your preferred sound, a Schilke 51D or Denis Wick 4AL are both great starting choices without falling into the trap of being either cavernous or strident.)

[CranstonTuba]

So I fully support bloke, that if you want to dip your toe into 3+1 compensating you can’t go wrong with a mack Compensating horn.

That’s said, I love my Wessex Festive. It’s a 4 valve front action compensating horn. Personally I like the ergonomics of front action better. I can actually adjust the first valve on the fly (which is rarely needed). It by far the most open blowing compensating euph I’ve ever played. And the intonation is also spot on.

[Eflatdoubler]

I have a John Packer I got from bloke and love. It is a horn I double on for shows and occasional brass band gigs. I have had Bessons, Wilson, and Adams. I would go for a 3+1 compensating horn. Not all 3+1 horns are compensating(Jupiter) but most are (just see if it has loops on the back of the valve block).
Euphonium was my minor so I am familiar with them. Is it as good as my Adams I HAD? No, but honestly I sold it, bought a Packer and then a sailboat with the money left over and am very happy with my decision(s). A 321 is great, but I think most bought them because of the price based on what was available. I do not like 4 valves on top near as much as a 3+1 for comfort but I tend to be in the minority on this forum. If you ever find a need for a low B, then sure a compensating horn will take care of that. Usually less guess work too on the other notes utilizing the 4th valve with the compensating system.

[Big Toot]

I started out as a euphonium player. I love the 3+1 setups, personally, but that's me. If you want a good sound throughout the entire range, spend a little extra and go for a compensating model. The Willson horn I had was a piece of crap, for some reason, and when I'd send it back to them for repairs/troubleshooting (I got to know them quite well), they would make adjustments, and send the horn back, but it never was quite up to snuff. I tried several other Willson's and had phenomenal luck with them. I don't know what it was about my particular one.
Anyways. I love the Bessons and Yamaha horns don't get enough love, in my opinion. They are both solid brands with solid horns.