Mack CC vs. Miraphone 191 Intonation

[Mike C855B]

Need to consult the brain trust here.

I recruited an acquaintance from the college band I play (oboe) in to add to my tuba work in a recreational summer band, and fill-in while I was dealing with medical issues. He is quite talented and very capable, and we are enjoying the heck out of rehearsing together. Our styles, tone and abilities are very similar, to the point of the few clams we have are often in the same places. Intonation between us is usually spot on, over the entire range. (Wish the trumpets would take a lesson here, but I digress.)

I said "usually". There is one note - Eb in the staff - that we cannot seem to agree on. As the title infers, he's on a Mack CC (don't know model - rotary valves, more of a Kaiser profile), and I'm on a 4V Mira 191. Playing by myself, it's OK according to the tuner, but that could easily be a case of tuner bias as I lip it in. Listening and adjusting aside, is there something characteristic with either horn that would make this one note "just wrong" relative to everything else?

I'd like some knowledgeable feedback before I bring it up with him before the performance this Saturday. We may not have a chance to compare then, as the director asked me to play euph for this gig - five tubas in a 30-piece band might have balance problems.

[timayer]

Caveat: I've never played either horn.

HOWEVER.

Based on experiences with several horns in the past, I would suspect that the Eb on your horn, played on the first valve, if anything, tends to be sharp. And the Eb on your friend's horn, played second valve, tends to be flat. So even if neither of you is more than 10 cents off, you may be 10 cents in each direction, and 20 cents is very noticeable.

The easiest fix would be to play the Eb 2-3 on your friend's horn. That's a common alternate, and is sharper than fingering it second valve. This may bring them into agreement.

If that doesn't do it, you may also have to pull your first valve slide out an inch or so for that one note.

If that doesn't do it, and there is one or more Eb where the discrepancy would be obvious to the audience, one of you sits that note out.

[Bnich93]

Have your buddy try the 2-3 alternate fingering. If it doesnt match the group then try pulling/pushing slides.

[Mike C855B]

At this point it's most important to line up with each other and hope beyond hope it sets a foundation for the group to build on. It's strictly an amateur "for fun" community pickup ensemble with many simply chasing notes the best they can between beers. The two of us, the director and one infrequent clarinetist are the only ones I'm aware of with any formal training and/or pro background, and I think it is incumbent on us to set the tone... so to speak.

Having never played a CC horn I never really processed where the partials fell, so the 6th vs. 5th difference explains a lot. We'll work on it. Very helpful, all, thank you.

[MackBrass]

6th partial 1st valve (BBb) tends sharp with many tubas and 5th partial 2nd valve (CC) tends flat with many tubas.

If both of you listen to the band, and line up with the band - and with each other, it shouldn't be a problem.

As a professional the most important thing we have and develop is our ears. Listen to each other and you will meet in the middle. It's not a CC BBb thing as it doesn't matter what kind of horn your playing on but what really matters is hearing each other. Before rehearsal try this, have your buddy play a note and sustain it. While he is holding that note listen to it then join him matching it. Next, is do the reverse and you pick and then play a note and have him join you. Keep doing this exercise on different notes. While doing this, don't worry or adjust your slides for anything or look at a tuner. Totally rely on your ears and listen/play until your both in unison together for each note. Next, do this with octaves then fifths then thirds. After you are locking in then play slow scales in unison together. After scales then play scales in octaves then fifths then thirds together. It's all in your ears. Good luck.

[MikeMason]

On a mirafone or miraclone c, that note is 2+3. Will get you close.

[MackBrass]

On a mirafone or miraclone c, that note is 2+3. Will get you close.

agreed...but the C-tuba equivalent of the beginner band book fingering chart (2nd valve) will as well.
I'm not a fan of the build of those clones, but you'll ~never~ see me state that they play badly out-of-tune.
2nd valve, probably, on one of those Jinbao's, is going to be a bit flat, but anyone with a little bit of embouchure strength should be able to push it in tune.

your right Joe, These are some of the most in tune tubas out there and I find that Eb to be very manageable with just 2nd valve as well. as to build, these are getting better all the time. We just went through another upgrade on all the stop arms so the linkages will now be raised above the stop arm. All paddle assemblies have been upgraded on all our tubas a few years ago and we will continue to make changes when needed.