The struggle and slotting issues

[jmf0000g]

Hi - long time lurker, first real post. I primarily play Euphonium in a community band as well as playing the tuba part (on Euphonium) in a brass quintet for about 9 years now (after a 20 year layoff). The Euphonium works in the quintet, for the most part - but I always wanted to get an actual Tuba to play in the group - to get that full, tuba sound and presence.

So, about 18 months ago I purchased a new Mack Brass TU220 Tuba (Cerveny Arion clone) - and that's when the struggles began.

The rotors were really slow, no matter what I did to them. And I could not slot a G or Gb (bottom of staff) for the life of me. So I struggled to play the horn for several months - became discouraged. It can't be this hard, can it? I played some Tuba in school years ago - I don't remember having this much trouble.

However, recently, I made a couple changes...
When I purchased the horn, Tom McGrady recommended blue juice for the valves. I decided to use Hetmans instead - which as I said above, didn't work very well. About a month ago I finally tried Blue Juice (which is what I used in my Euphonium), and it instantly made a huge difference. The action was no longer heavy and slow - the valves worked MUCH better. I can actually play fast passages now (one issue resolved - should have listened to Tom from the beginning).

I had been using a Conn Helleberg 120S mouthpiece for about the last year, and I recently switched to a Blessing 18 instead to see if it would help with my slotting issues. The Blessing mouthpiece improved my range and articulation (no longer sounded like mud). But - the dang G and Gb - still won't slot properly. It feels like the slot is extremely narrow - if I'm not perfectly on the note - it will crack (the Helleberg felt similar). I'm able to play all other notes fine with no problems.

Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts regarding this slotting issue?
Any help or advice is appreciated - thanks!

[iiipopes]

When I first got my Bessophone in its original 186 detachable bell configuration, I also had slotting issues with the first line Gb. It seemed that nothing I did, whether maintenance, technique, lubrication, mouthpiece, etc., would do anything to keep the note from cracking. I don't think it was any one item, because over time, as I needed new rotor bumpers, a dent removed here and there, new water key corks, etc., and a new bell, the problem seemed to resolve itself over time. I don't know if it was a brace that was binding, a leak, either in the tubing or the water key cork, a dent, or a little bit of all the above. It seems that a lot can go wrong that is not apparent with the dogleg and the 3rd valve tubing that is just too small to see.

[Bill B]

It could be a mechanical issue or possibly an intonation issue, where you want to buzz a slightly different pitch than what the horn wants to give? Have you tried working with a tuner, first find out where the Bb above lies (settle in before you look at the tuner) and then work on the G and Gb in a similar fashion - find out where they naturally lay and then look at the tuner to see whether they are sharp or flat in relation to the Bb. Also, doing lip slurs (such as Remington flexibility exercises) between the partials on descending valve combinations may help your body learn to help lock these in. My two cents, for what it is worth.

[tbonesullivan]

How are the other notes with that valve combination slot well? Or, can you get a sharp or flat Gb to slot if you play it for a while in that "range"?

[Worth]

Just wondered if anyone had any thoughts regarding this slotting issue?

Some years ago when I moved to Tuba from Euphonium there was, on two different horns, a specific range from middle of the staff Ab to B (on C horns), where I had a lot of difficulty making the notes speak properly if attempting anything other than a mp attack and a super precise buzz. Interestingly, two other players had no issues on my horns at all. The issue resolved itself as my embouchure strengthened. I attributed it to weak corners and a mouthpiece too big for me to handle at the time. Like others have said, just my two cents FWIW

[Doug Elliott]

It's common for new players to have that happen on some notes. I had it on G also when I first tried a tuba. I attribute it to your chops not knowing how to deal with the resistance (or lack of it) as it changes on different notes and valve combinations. Eventually you figure it out.

[Mark Horne]

I had a similar issue when I first started tuba after years on french horn. I had a Cerveny 681 (CC) and had a difficult time getting the A at the bottom of the staff to attack cleanly (the same relative partial as your G). It felt like there must have been a problem with the horn, but I recognized that the problem was my lack of playing experience on tuba. As others have suggested the issue disappeared over time as I logged more hours.

Another factor might be related to acoustic interference from your practice space. Standing waves will interfere either constructively or destructively depending on the notes you are playing. Test this by trying the problem notes outdoors or in a large venue to see if anything changes.

[smitwill1]

I sympathize—I believe that I’ve experienced what you’re describing when switching between horns. To summarize prior contributors: (1) check the mechanics such as valve regulation and compression (probably fine on a relatively new instrument), (2) rule out other issues such as gunk in/on the rotors and within the knuckles, (3) buzz the pitch to make sure you’re centering the pitch with your chops, and (4) be patient with yourself; you’re engaging muscles you haven’t used that way before.
FWIW, try doing “sirens” on your mouthpiece: softly gliss high to low and low to high across your tuba range. Often I’ve found a “glitch”—for lack of better term—in the range that I’m having trouble getting to speak well. Spending a few minutes glissing softly around those spots helps smooth those things out—at least it does for me.
Cheers!
Bill

[MaryAnn]

I do wonder what embouchure set you're using on that note, or if it is "between sets" ... some people will "blow down" in one part of the range and then switch to "blow up" in another part of the range, and the note "in between" those two will crack like crazy. Something to check out. I like the sirens idea because it will show if you are doing that. Sirens up and down across the problem note.
When I was still learning horn I spent about three months during my daily commute doing sirens across the part of the range where I had a "break" and it got permanently fixed.

[jmf0000g]

Thanks everyone for all the tips and suggestions. I will keep working on it and be patient. Thanks again -the help is very much appreciated,