top-action/3+1/etc. playing position

GC · Post by GC » Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:55 am

Joe, are you fairly tall? I have a short trunk, and I have to hold my JP377 on the seat to be comfortable. Since the 377's leadpipe is angled fairly far away from the bell, I have to turn my chair about 45 degrees to have enough length in the seat to keep it from sliding off the front (and my gut pushes it forward, too). I wish I could hold it like you do your Besson, but my physique gets in the way.

I really wish someone would make a folding chair with a flat seat that's about 6-8" longer than typical. I've found a couple of longer seats that are raised in the front, which defeats the purpose.

Three Valves · Post by **Three Valves** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:10 pm

Everyone knows it’s the mouthpiece that makes the difference!!

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:05 pm

It all depends on the tuba, unless you want to have the leadpipe moved. For me, the Yamaha Bb YBB-631 compensator, resting on my right leg, put the mouthpiece exactly where I needed it.

The YBB-632 Neo, the model that replace that. had the mouthpiece about an inch too high. I had to mess with the angle a bit and put it on my left left to get it to sit right.

I play in a group with a guy who has a nice silver plated Mahillon BBb 4 valve upright tuba, and for him putting it on his right leg gets it right at the correct height.

toobagrowl · Post by **toobagrowl** » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:17 pm

Many ppl who complain about top action tubas are usually referring to the larger BBb instruments. The right arm/hand is awkwardly lifted in the air to operate the valves, and to get the leadpipe/mpc to your face comfortably, you have to finagle the horn in your chair/lap just right.

So, front action valves for me

oleirgens · Post by **oleirgens** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:24 am

bloke wrote:So many seem to eschew top-action tubas, because - it is often claimed - they are uncomfortable to hold and play.

I have played both types, like you - my last horn before going into the rotary/front valve action world being a Yamaha Eb Maestro 3+1. I remember this being a quite comfortable instrument to play, with the left arm hand on the 4th valve giving good support to the tuba.

I have struggled a bit finding a good playing position with the various front action tubas I have had during the last years, but for me the solution is a drum throne and a good K & M tuba stand. When you use the left arm for slide pulling and not support, this is even more important. Even for a smaller instrument like my new 4/4 JP the stand is very convenient and gives me a solid and stable support.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:09 am

Well, if they are looking for new or recent tubas, front action is pretty much all everyone makes these days. The only top actions are the 3+1 tubas, and they are definitely in the minority on the U.S. Market. I was lucky to find my 3+1 compensator at a decent price and condition.

What I don't get are people who fight the need to get a tuba stand, or make any type of modifications to how they hold the tuba for better comfort and ergonomics. Tuba player I work with puts these sticky rubber pads on his pants to hold the tuba in place, where a stand would just work SO MUCH BETTER.

oleirgens · Post by **oleirgens** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:31 am

bloke wrote: Besides the extra lugging weight to/from, there's no really convenient way to carry them (not safe anywhere in a soft bag) and - with every single one of them used with every single front-action tuba with which I've ever tried them out - they all result in imperfect (far inferior to just holding the instrument) playing positions, and with several of them resulting in uncomfortable contortions, neck-craning, etc. As with much of government, they seem to be poor solutions to problems that they themselves create.

YMMV, I guess. I have a small suitcase roller containing my stand, my drum throne, music stand and sheet music, and also a small bag containing oils, grease, my tuning tool and a plier and screwdriver, and that is a convenient way of travelling to and from concerts and rehearsals. The stand works for me - I have found a position combined with the throne which gives me both stability and flexibility.

eeflattuba · Post by **eeflattuba** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:48 pm

As I have played these type of tubas[both ee flat and bb flat]for all of my tuba playing life I feel qualified to offer a few comments. I rest my ee flat 981 besson soverign on my right thigh as it has the lower leadpipe.If I had the besson 982 ee flat with the higher leadpipe I would be able to place it on the chair as I am about 6 feet tall.I do on occasion bring my deg tuba rest when I am unsure what kind of chair I am going to get.For my bb flat neo I can rest the tuba on the chair between my legs.Regardless how you hold them these particular tubas are some of the most in tune point and shoot tubas I have ever played.

MN_TimTuba · Post by **MN_TimTuba** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:58 pm

Re: top-action/3+1/etc. playing position

Postby Doc » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:48 am
"I believe when the player is fully connected to the instrument, the music-making bond between player and instrument is increased."

Completely agree.
I've not felt a need for any manner of appliance to hold the horn, whether top valve or front. The little Yamaha 621 I played for several years probably could have used one of those post attachments to lift her up a bit, but wrapping my left arm around her down low did the job just fine, and - at 6' 1", 230 lbs - I'm probably about median-sized for most tuba players. One item that has interested me is one that I've seen here somewhere - an upside-down hook on the left side of a front action horn. That would help steady things when both standing and sitting with my current horn. For a solo performance last year I did purchase the neoprene tuba harness...but never used it. Just felt awkward. If I ever have to march with my Holton, though, I'll certainly strap 'er on.

Dan Tuba · Post by **Dan Tuba** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:08 pm

I rest my Conn 25J on my lap between my thighs. It's actually comfortable to hold...more so than the BMB J765 that I used to own. My left hand rests on the first valve slide, so it's super easy to adjust while playing if necessary.

oleirgens · Post by **oleirgens** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:29 am

bloke wrote: ...the consummate community bandsman.

Within that formidable list of items, above, the one that I bring with me to engagements is marked in bold.

bloke "Hey...Don't forget your mouthpiece! "

The list is of course not complete. I also bring with me a light survival kit, medical supplies, some water and snacks and of course a military issue carbine, in case of polar bear attacks (I DO live in Norway) or political instability (ibid).

And my mouthpiece.

Voisi1ev · Post by **Voisi1ev** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:13 am

Been playing a Bb Neo for about a year and a half. I can't play it without a stand. Like no matter how I put it on a chair or my leg I can't get the MP lined up with my face without some effort holding it up. That said, I'm getting pretty accustomed to it, no problem at all sitting on a DEG stand. If anything I like it because its heavy enough to stay on the stand while I keep playing and turn pages or scratch my face with my left hand.

Bnich93 · Post by **Bnich93** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:25 pm

Im 5'9" and play my 377 almost vertical on the top of my left leg. That being said I have the body of a 6'5" person and the legs of a 4'11" person so I am the exception not the rule.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 3:37 pm

I've seen a lot of brass band pictures, and they use tuba harnesses,even when sitting down. That is one way to do it, I guess. When / if I get good enough to play outside of my basement, I'll have to decide what to do.

oleirgens · Post by **oleirgens** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:23 am

tbonesullivan wrote:I've seen a lot of brass band pictures, and they use tuba harnesses,even when sitting down. That is one way to do it, I guess. When / if I get good enough to play outside of my basement, I'll have to decide what to do.

I've been to a lot of brass band concerts, and have _never_ seen a tubaist with a harness, even when sitting down. Not in wind band concerts, either. Harnesses are a mess, and IMHO totaly useless when sitting down.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:41 pm

oleirgens wrote:I've been to a lot of brass band concerts, and have _never_ seen a tubaist with a harness, even when sitting down. Not in wind band concerts, either. Harnesses are a mess, and IMHO totaly useless when sitting down.

I'd much rather wear a harness than sit on an 8 inch platform to balance the tuba on the chair, like a lot of other pictures I've seen. Though that's mostly the BBb tubas, not the Eb.

Also in the tight spaces that we're often forced into in the U.S., as with Jazz bands, having the instrument set up so it can't move is convenient. I wish there was something like that for a trombone, as we often don't even have space for a stand, much less to move our slides.

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:49 pm

Doc wrote:We’ve all played these kinds of jobs, but those work conditions are unacceptable. Non-musicians are often in charge of gigs, venues, etc., and they are completely clueless (and apathetic) about space requirements.

Yeah, or you have someone who only ever played clarinet, who can't understand why the spacing between chairs can't be only 4 inches. Then they encounter stringed instruments, with that "Bow thing" and their minds explode.

One of the reasons I took up Euphonium was because I had the brass band itch, but didn't want to worry about playing bass trombone in tight quarters.

oedipoes · Post by **oedipoes** » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:57 am

No way I can play a top-action 3+1 BBb in an ergonomic way.
Putting the tuba on the chair, the mouthpiece hits my head...

My EEb with Fletcher-style leadpipe fits me like a big euphonium!

tbonesullivan · Post by **tbonesullivan** » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:22 pm

Doc wrote:I played bass trombone in jazz band in college, and I played with a couple of outstanding bass bones in different low brass sections in school and prfeshnuly. So... I can't imagine a circumstance so dire or desperate that I would trade bass bone for euphonium. You most certainly have my sympathies!

Well, there are other reasons, like playing the solo in Mars: Bringer of War. I'd always wanted one, and finally decided that maybe instead of hoarding guitars, I could get something I'd actually use. Bass trombone is fun, but I feel like having more options may give me more playing opportunities. The Euph does have a beautiful sound, and no slide thing for people to destroy when I've got it on a stand, which can and has happened. Thankfully, not since high school, but it's still a fear. I don't want to have to hunt down another Yamaha YBL-612 R II, and I seriously doubt I would find one in as good condition as the one I have.

Jerryleejr · Post by **Jerryleejr** » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:12 pm

In the Eb world I have found that wanting a small bell front action horn really narrows the market lol...

JJ