Gig Bag Weight

[Bill Troiano]

So with all of the discussion over recent years regarding tuba weight for us aging players, I’m now wondering about gig bag weight. There could be a correlation between weight, padding and the ability of the bag to protect the tuba. I’ve owned a lot of Altieri bags. I like them because I like top loaders to just place the tuba into the bag without having to put the bag on the ground. I like that it’s light in weight. I also like where the straps are attached and the tuba doesn’t slap me in the butt as I walk. But, it’s not a maximum protection bag and my 1965, 186 (thin metal) is taking some hits that I think are happening while it’s in the bag.

So, I’m looking for a bag to fit my old 186. I currently own 2 Altieri bags and one of them will go with my Gnagey tuba if it ever sells. Sooo, what’s out there that offers excellent protection (for a bag) and isn’t too heavy? My 1292 (that I since sold) came with a Miraphone bag. It was an excellent bag, but it weighed a lot for a gig bag, I thought.

I’m seeing threads regarding Messina bags. They cost enough, so I would hope they offer good protection, but what do they weigh, perhaps in comparison to a Miraphone bag.

Thanks all!

[tbonesullivan]

Coming from the trombone world, I pretty much swore off gig bags, mainly because finding one with a truly rigid slide compartment was next to impossible. There are many well-regarded trombone techs who will give people an earful for using trombone gig bags, and there are even many trombone hard cases that don't adequately support/protect the slide.

With tubas, it's definitely a different animal, however the issue is still that it's very rarely truly RIGID protection. Some energy from a blow can still be transmitted to the interior, and if it's a lighter weight tuba with thinner brass, you get a dent, or possibly deformation.

Looking at the Messina bags, they do look to be very high quality, and well made, but I don't see much mention of any type of rigid inserts. They do have 1.5 inch "stiff and lightweight" padding.

[bort]

A lot of older players I've seen just use a cart to wheel around their tuba (either in a gig bag or in a hard case).

I wouldn't expect much protection from dents with any gig bag. After reading about the fabric that Gard uses (1680 denier ballistic nylon), I learned that this material was developed for WWII flak jackets (i.e., protection against flying shrapnel and shards of metal). So your tuba will be safe from that, at least. Dents...? That's another story.

And frankly, dents are going to happen. Just about any tuba I've seen that is heavily used (pro or amateur) has had some dents in it and removed from it. A lot of tubas look much better form 5 feet away than they do in your lap, and that's just a reality to live with. The best looking undented tubas I've seen... weren't used very much.

[bisontuba]

Blue Miraphone gig bags, period. Light weight, great protection.

[ronr]

Messina bags are side loaders, I believe

[Bill Troiano]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'm not quite ready to resort to using a cart yet. Right now, I still have the Altieri bag that I bought for a 1292 that I sold. That bag works for the Gnagey tuba (for sale here) and my 186, except it’s not quite tall enough to adequately protect the bell on the 186, so I use the Altieri bell cover too. But if the Gnagey sells, with the bag, it seems to me the Miraphone bag or Messina bag are the best choices for my 186. I would imagine the Miraphone bag would be heavier, especially with the hard plastic insert in the cover. But, it is a top loader, which I like. I think Messina only makes side loaders. I guess either one will do.

[greenbean]

I had one of those blue Miraphone bags and liked it a lot. I never weighed it but it seemed to be about as light as any other gig bag.

I currently have a Goetz-made bag for a MW 25 (fits my B&S 103 perfectly). So, it is a fairly big bag. My postal scale says it weights 8 1/2 lb. I also have an older, smaller Reunion Blues SF bag that fits tubas about 37" tall and bells up to 16.5". It weights 6 1/4 lb. Leather bags will, of course, be heavier.

I believe hard cases weigh between 20 and 45 lb, so - for me - using a bag is a no-brainer, despite the lower level of protection. I am just not willing to throw my back out lugging a case to a rehearsal once a week.

[Bill Troiano]

Good to know, Wade, about the material in the lid of the Miraphone bags. I would think they would know this and use a different material, like some sort of plastic. Thanks for the heads up (although it doesn’t rain much in Texas.)

[tbonesullivan]

The brims of baseball caps used to be cardboard/pressboard as well. Also a lot of the dividers in things like laptop bags and other luggage are cardboard as well. They aren't really designed to get wet unfortunately.

However I would have thought that for the price the miraphone bags would have flexible plastic or something similar. I was considering one for my euphonium, but no longer. If I just need something to tote around the euph, a pro-tec will do.

[bort]

Photos?

[bort]

Also, the Miraphone product description explicitly says it is a carbon fiber disc. If you had something other than that... Well, I'm just not sure what to tell you. I don't doubt what you saw, but don't think it was representative.

The Miraphone bag I had was as well-made as anything I've owned, and a heck of a lot more comfortable than a Cronkhite. Ugly blue, but less frumpy than anything else (the front pouch on a Cronkhite?). Security was an issue for me with a Cronkhite too... A snap-off pouch on my back on a crowded subway train? No thanks.

We've all got our reasons, and besides the bags we all mutually dislike, the rest are all about as good as each other.

[Tom]

The only ones that were significantly heavier were those top-loaders that had a big thick sheet of rolled stiff plastic embedded in them. (brand name: _______ ??)
Those were so much heavier that (combined, perhaps with inadequate stitching?) the handles and straps ended up being torn off from the extra weight.

Dolly Bags.

Their calling-card was the plastic sheeting stitched into the bag between the padding and the exterior cordura.

They are very heavy. When I got my F tuba years ago, I actually sought out one of these because they were often talked about as the 'most protective' bags around. This would have been early 2000s and at that time Dolly Bags was already having the (well documented) issues with timely fulfillment of orders and poor communication with customers, so I bought a used one. It was at least 10 years old when I got it and I've had it for another 16-17 years since then, so it's over 25 years old and probably closer to 30.

I have never had any issues with the straps or handles on mine, but what has happened as the bag got older was that the plastic sheets started to crack and crumble. Then both big slabs and smaller shards started to slide around in the layer between the padding and the exterior of the bag. This cannot really be 'fixed' unless you ripped open every seam on the bag and removed/replaced all of the plastic sheets - in other words the bag would essentially get destroyed in the process of trying to save it. Eventually the sharp edges of the plastic pieces started to wear through the material here-and-there.

I guess that means the bag is just worn out and ought to be replaced, which makes me wonder...

What is the expected life span of a gig bag? I know it depends on use and care, but when you buy this stuff, how much time do you expect to get out of it? It's hard to believe that I've been at this long enough to actually have stuff I've worn out!

[bisontuba]

Also, the Miraphone product description explicitly says it is a carbon fiber disc. If you had something other than that... Well, I'm just not sure what to tell you. I don't doubt what you saw, but don't think it was representative.

The Miraphone bag I had was as well-made as anything I've owned, and a heck of a lot more comfortable than a Cronkhite. Ugly blue, but less frumpy than anything else (the front pouch on a Cronkhite?). Security was an issue for me with a Cronkhite too... A snap-off pouch on my back on a crowded subway train? No thanks.

We've all got our reasons, and besides the bags we all mutually dislike, the rest are all about as good as each other.

Description of Miraphone bags:

Factory Bags!

These bags feature a top load construction, with thick padding for optimal protection and a specially designed carbon fiber protector disc built in to the bell area of the bag to absorb impact to the bell area and transfer that energy away from the instrument, preventing damage from small collisions with objects, such as doorways. These bags also include a shoulder strap plus backpack straps with a center clip to prevent the straps from slipping off the shoulders......

[bort]

What is the expected life span of a gig bag?

I have a leather Cronkhite that I bought in 2000 and it is still like new. I do ZERO care to the leather. None.

When I bought my Willson, it came with a leather Cronkhite bag, which was probably 15 years old. The tuba had been professionally owned and used up until that time.

As both Willson tubas and leather Cronkhite bags are both built like tanks... neither showed much of any wear.

I sold the leather Cronkhite bag, because the whole setup was just too heavy; probably >40 lbs for tuba and bag combined.

[Bill Troiano]

Thank for the input, everyone, including bag quality issues. Not meaning to hijack my own thread, but I’m curious as to why some prefer side loaders over top loaders. To me, a top loader allows one to basically drop the tuba into the bag. The bag doesn’t have to lie on the floor to load the tuba into it. With a side loader, you would place the bag on the floor. All floors are dirty. Then you put it on your back, dirt and all. Plus, if the zipper fails, there goes the tuba. ???

[bisontuba]

Thank for the input, everyone, including bag quality issues. Not meaning to hijack my own thread, but I’m curious as to why some prefer side loaders over top loaders. To me, a top loader allows one to basically drop the tuba into the bag. The bag doesn’t have to lie on the floor to load the tuba into it. With a side loader, you would place the bag on the floor. All floors are dirty. Then you put it on your back, dirt and all. Plus, if the zipper fails, there goes the tuba. ???

Exactly....

[greenbean]

Thank for the input, everyone, including bag quality issues. Not meaning to hijack my own thread, but I’m curious as to why some prefer side loaders over top loaders. To me, a top loader allows one to basically drop the tuba into the bag. The bag doesn’t have to lie on the floor to load the tuba into it. With a side loader, you would place the bag on the floor. All floors are dirty. Then you put it on your back, dirt and all. Plus, if the zipper fails, there goes the tuba. ???

I wonder if a new thread could be created with this question. I think a lot of players are interested in the top-loader vs side-loader question. There are certainly pros and cons to each.

[toobagrowl]

To me, a top loader allows one to basically drop the tuba into the bag. The bag doesn’t have to lie on the floor to load the tuba into it. With a side loader, you would place the bag on the floor. All floors are dirty. Then you put it on your back, dirt and all. Plus, if the zipper fails, there goes the tuba. ???

My top-loading bag gets just as dirty as my side loading bags. They both still lay on the floor. And if you carry a side loading bag with the handle straps, the tuba is lower to the ground and you don't have to worry about the zipper busting.

[Bill Troiano]

All of my recent bags have been top loaders, and I never place them on the floor because I don’t want dirt on them. I always stand them someplace when not in use. And, when I load the tuba, I grab it in one hand by the top branch and I lift and drop it into the bag. The bag never lies on the floor. Maybe that’s just me.

[bort]

Also, the Miraphone product description explicitly says it is a carbon fiber disc. If you had something other than that... Well, I'm just not sure what to tell you. I don't doubt what you saw, but don't think it was representative.

The Miraphone bag I had was as well-made as anything I've owned, and a heck of a lot more comfortable than a Cronkhite. Ugly blue, but less frumpy than anything else (the front pouch on a Cronkhite?). Security was an issue for me with a Cronkhite too... A snap-off pouch on my back on a crowded subway train? No thanks.

We've all got our reasons, and besides the bags we all mutually dislike, the rest are all about as good as each other.

Description of Miraphone bags:

Factory Bags!

These bags feature a top load construction, with thick padding for optimal protection and a specially designed carbon fiber protector disc built in to the bell area of the bag to absorb impact to the bell area and transfer that energy away from the instrument, preventing damage from small collisions with objects, such as doorways. These bags also include a shoulder strap plus backpack straps with a center clip to prevent the straps from slipping off the shoulders......

BTW, Miraphone bags are made in Slovakia