Weril products still has market in the USA?

[rick-tuba]

Hello there,

My name is Ricardo and I run a music store in Brazil and I´m also a investor. Few days ago I received an interested proposal to invest in the company Weril. I know that Weril sold a lot of instruments to the american market back in 1990 and 2000 and a lot of musicians apreciatte Weril because their quality and affordable prices, but they stoped working with the american market because of bad decisions made by the (previous owners) and also the lack of financial resources, and they gave space to other competitors including the chineses.

I would like to hear your opinion if Weril still has the potencial to win back the american market share that they used to have ?

PS. It is very important to say that Weril oficially stopped making musical instruments about a year ago (they are attending only the internal market) and still have the machinery and the best professionals to continue making the instruments with the same quality as always.

I appreciate your help and sorry about my rusty english

thanks

Ricardo

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[tbonesullivan]

It all depends. With lots of major companies working with China to make affordable yet good quality brass instruments, the market is kinda saturated. There's Eastman, the Eastman by Shires trombone line, the Shires Q-series which is partly made in China. Then you have John Packer, who also makes the J.P. Rath line of Trombones, and the Packer/Sterling line of euphoniums and tubas.

Also there companies like Big Mouth Brass, Wessex, Mack Brass, and others that are importing instruments from overseas. Dillon Music now has an entire line of its own import brass.

What it's going to come down to is, essentially, how well they can compete in the U.S. market, and that is going to require a U.S. partner to work with. Looking back, it seems that Baltimore Brass used to stock a lot of Weril instruments around 10 years ago. However now they are dealing a lot in the John Packer instruments.

Now, you said that Weril stopped MAKING instruments a year ago, or are they just not EXPORTING them anymore?

[T. J. Ricer]

I’d be interested in trying the Weingrill and Nirschl stuff they started to do a few years back (heck, maybe a decade back now). Also liked the small CC they made similar to the Yamaha 621 with the long leadpipe and different valve angle... I would think there is a US market if the price is competitive.

-T. J.

[rick-tuba]

It all depends. With lots of major companies working with China to make affordable yet good quality brass instruments, the market is kinda saturated. There's Eastman, the Eastman by Shires trombone line, the Shires Q-series which is partly made in China. Then you have John Packer, who also makes the J.P. Rath line of Trombones, and the Packer/Sterling line of euphoniums and tubas.

Also there companies like Big Mouth Brass, Wessex, Mack Brass, and others that are importing instruments from overseas. Dillon Music now has an entire line of its own import brass.

What it's going to come down to is, essentially, how well they can compete in the U.S. market, and that is going to require a U.S. partner to work with. Looking back, it seems that Baltimore Brass used to stock a lot of Weril instruments around 10 years ago. However now they are dealing a lot in the John Packer instruments.

Now, you said that Weril stopped MAKING instruments a year ago, or are they just not EXPORTING them anymore?

Hi there,

I think the quality of the brass and the finishing of Weril instruments is much better than most of the best chinese instruments but I know that they need to prove that they still can make good and affordble horns.

I know that DEG Music Products used to be a distribuitor in the United States and now the company no longer exists I heard that was acquired by St Louis Music, is that true? I´m thinking to speak to them in order to make a partnership.

Do you have anyone who might be interested to be a Weril partner?

Weril stoped exporting since 2010 (I guess) and they decided to sell only in Brazil and they also made some Tubas to W. NIRSCHL.

thanks

[rick-tuba]

Though (my understanding) there's very like nickel available to be mined in South America, more nickel-brass (aka "nickel silver") would need to be used in the instruments. Albeit chrome-plated, BRASS inner playing slide tubes on trombones just don't cut it. A Swiss maker uses very little nickel in their instruments, but make up for it with titanic-gauge materials. (Still...I sometimes encounter red-rot issues with those instruments - when owned by players who heavily secrete lime in their breath.) Further (as with an R.O.C. maker) brace flanges made of same-gauge-as-the-instrument's-sheet-brass are just too flimsy, as are thin-gauge hollow brass tubes (rather than solid brass or nickel-brass cylindrical material) for bracing.

As someone above mentioned, you would be in competition with coastal PRC China's best factories - such as the one used by JP/John Packer. The most carefully-manufactured PRC instruments are not super-low-priced, but - well - I've seen some retailers selling the marginal-quality PRC products (making up for build quality with exposure/selection) for prices just as high, so...(??)

fwiw...I've been in communication (emailing em Português) with the current Weril people...attempting to buy a model J371 tuba piston body (1.001" - 1.002" diameter), as well as another part. We get up to a certain point, and I can't seem to get them to the point, "Yes...We'll ship the part. Please send XXXX-money to so-and-so place." If you are in communication with them, I'd be delighted if you could nudge them for me. I'm ready to pay, and quite ready for them to ship me the needed piston body.

for my understanding I need to talk to someone that is specialist in sales/market in order to find out if Weril is capable or not to be one of the best brass instruments suplier.

Yes, I can contact them and ship the product for you. Tomorrow I will visit them and let you know the price.. okay??

thanks

[rick-tuba]

I’d be interested in trying the Weingrill and Nirschl stuff they started to do a few years back (heck, maybe a decade back now). Also liked the small CC they made similar to the Yamaha 621 with the long leadpipe and different valve angle... I would think there is a US market if the price is competitive.

-T. J.

are you talking about this tuba ??

[Donn]

I bet he's talking about the old model J681.


Back in the day, there would probably have been some customers for the J682 Eb, too, if it had been obtainable.

[T. J. Ricer]

I think Rick and Donn are both right... the first one looks like the Nirschl 4/4 copy (Weingrill & Nirschl? W. Nirschl?) and the second one looks like the small 3/4 Yamaha-ish-but-not-quite CC I was referring to.

-T. J.

[Matt Walters]

No real market for Weril Tubas at this time. The Werils to come across my repair bench were at best on par with the mediocre Chinese horns, yet they were priced much higher. So where would you get skilled craftsmen better than what was there before but willing to work for less money?

[Bbfoghorn]

I played a j680 VERY briefly, one rehearsal. Tried several MP's and none worked well. At best a 3/4 size 3 vale tuba with a decorative but unusable 4th valve. i went back to my previous horn, Yammy 103. Foggy

[marccromme]

I think that Weril lost its chance some ten or fifteen years ago. I owned a bass trombone model Gagliard from them some nine years ago. at that time it was more expensive than good Chinese instruments are now, and did play worse than say Wessex/Jinbao bass trombones, of which I owned one for about eight years. The best of the Chinese factories did improve much over the last fifteen years, I really doubt that Weril did improve. And then they did totally missed their market opportunity. I would not invest a dime there ... Sorry