Brass Band Music Reading Help

[WessCollette]

Having been out of the music scene for 20+ years, I have gotten back into it with a CC tuba. One group that I have the opportunity to play with plays Brass Band music. Can anyone recommend some practice tips to transposing as I read the B-flat Bass part? I am seriously considering trying to borrow or but a BBb tuba just for this group.

[Mark]

Get a trombone book that teaches tenor clef, the Fink Introducing the tenor clef for trombone, is a good one. Learn tenor clef; and in the Fink book it will then teach you how to easily switch tenor clef to Bb treble clef. In other words, learn the notes and not some transposition trick.

[WessCollette]

Thank you. I am definitely not wanting to learn a trick.

[roughrider]

Please get a BBb tuba as soon as you can for your brass band playing. The CC tuba will work, however the BBb just fits better with the Eb tubas which should be along side you. I have played BBb tuba in bass clef for forty years. I joined a very good brass band last year and the members of the group have been great. My treble clef progress is very slow, however I hope to be able to read and play in the treble clef at some point.

[hup_d_dup]

Having been out of the music scene for 20+ years, I have gotten back into it with a CC tuba. One group that I have the opportunity to play with plays Brass Band music. Can anyone recommend some practice tips to transposing as I read the B-flat Bass part? I am seriously considering trying to borrow or but a BBb tuba just for this group.

I agree that it would be a good idea to get your hands on a Bb (borrow, don't buy yet). Don't transpose, learn the fingerings.

I don't get the idea of trying to learn treble clef for bass by reading tenor clef for trombone, no matter how easy the transfer is. There are dozens of books written for trumpet and cornet, for all levels of skills, that read exactly the way you will be reading treble clef for Bb bass. You don't need another completely unnecessary layer of complexity, no matter how minor.

Hup

[oleirgens]

Having been out of the music scene for 20+ years, I have gotten back into it with a CC tuba. One group that I have the opportunity to play with plays Brass Band music. Can anyone recommend some practice tips to transposing as I read the B-flat Bass part? I am seriously considering trying to borrow or but a BBb tuba just for this group.

Maybe you should consider playing the Eb bass part instead? I do this myself in a local brass band with my Cc tuba, and the transposing from the treble clef part is really easy. But from a transposed part for Bb tuba in treble clef to a Cc horn... the mind boggles.

[termite]

Can you read treble clef? If yes then just transpose everything down a tone - if you see C, play Bb etc.
Transposing is a skill which improves very quickly with practice, especially if it's the same transposition all the time which is the case here.
N.B. clarinet players are expected to be able to play Bb parts on A clarinet and vice versa and play C parts on either A or Bb clarinet.
If you can read treble clef and have a BBb tuba then the fingering is the same as CC tuba bass clef - C open, D fourth, E one and two etc.
If you don't read treble clef the best thing is probably to grab a BBb tuba and a beginner trumpet book and just work through it.
I started on BBb tuba treble clef and then later added BBb tuba bass clef.
That involved learning a whole new set of fingerings.
And of course as already mentioned you can just grab the EEb part, pretend it's bass clef and add three flats while keeping an eye on the BBb parts for low notes missing from the EEb part.
Regards
Gerard

[LibraryMark]

I subbed in a brass band for about a year on a Miraclone C playing the BBb part. It was not easy but it can be done. Listening to the recordings helped keep me from embarrassing myself too much but even after a year I still had my "C" moments. I agree with roughrider, if you can swing it, buy a BBb, and get the biggest one you can afford/carry. Here is an area where size does matter.

[oleirgens]

3+1 comp. B-flats (or 3 comp...as false tones with most of these instruments rival the quality of sousaphone false tones) are the instruments for that genre (just as are sousaphones for marching bands, and "contras" for corps).

So, only compensated Eb and Bb tubas can be used in a brass band, is that your opinion? I know this has been discussed here before, and of course there will be pros and cons, I subbed myself in a local brass band for the national competition in Norway with my trusty JP Cc, and nobody raised an eyebrow (not that I noticed, anyway). Some will argue that the original brass band sound can be obtained only from a pair of Ebs and a pair of Bbs, but I beg to differ. I think a big Cc tuba easily can replace a Bb, and a 4/4 Cc can be a good Eb substitute. Transposing from the treble clef Bb part to bass clef concert pitch can be done with a good music notation software, although I agree this can be a bit time consuming if the repertoire is substantial.

[hup_d_dup]

So, only compensated Eb and Bb tubas can be used in a brass band, is that your opinion?

Speaking for myself, it is not my opinion. For most brass bands, there is plenty to work on before the differences between Eb's and F's, or Bb's and C's, become apparent.

At some level, however, small differences become noticeable differences. Top bands don't want to give away anything, especially not something so easily correctable as having compatible horns (yes, compared to the incredible work and dedication and time applied to creating their music, getting matching horns is probably the easiest thing to do).

Hup

[Voisi1ev]

So, only compensated Eb and Bb tubas can be used in a brass band, is that your opinion?

Speaking for myself, it is not my opinion. For most brass bands, there is plenty to work on before the differences between Eb's and F's, or Bb's and C's, become apparent.

At some level, however, small differences become noticeable differences. Top bands don't want to give away anything, especially not something so easily correctable as having compatible horns (yes, compared to the incredible work and dedication and time applied to creating their music, getting matching horns is probably the easiest thing to do).

Hup

I'm with this fella. I played Bb parts on a C horn for a bout a year and a half then I lucked my way into a good deal on a Bb Neo.

It sounds like your brain is similar to mine, I literally just learned it as a new set of fingerings rather than any transposition tricks. It is just a bit messy early in the process. Make sure to play some bass clef stuff now and then also. Eventually it won't phase you much. Now I'm pretty comfortable with bass clef and transposed parts on Bb, Eb, and C tubas. That said now my brain shuts down when I try to play non transposed treble parts. Or playing Bb treble parts on an Eb tuba, that kills some brain cells.

That said it is easier on a Bb. Especially if you know trumpet fingerings pretty well already.

[MaryAnn]

I have played a CC on both the BBb and the Eb parts. Just learn a new clef; it is free. Xerox some of the music, write the concert pitch note names under the notes, or the fingering, whichever way you read better, and just memorize it. You'll have it in a few weeks. Way way cheaper than a BBb tuba.

It depends on how "purist" your situation is. The band I played in, french horns were not allowed but I played not only the above, but euph on the Bass tbone part, and euph on the Eb tuba part. I've also played euph on the lowest part in a horn octet. If you can read multiple clefs, you can do anything called for and will be a valuable addition.

[Worth]

I have played a CC on both the BBb and the Eb parts. Just learn a new clef; it is free. Xerox some of the music, write the concert pitch note names under the notes, or the fingering, whichever way you read better, and just memorize it. You'll have it in a few weeks. Way way cheaper than a BBb tuba.

What makes helping the OP difficult IMO is that it's like being multilingual, some have it, others not so much. As a pianist, I'm fluent in TC and BC but have my own issues thinking outside the box of CC and Eb. Playing a Bb instrument in BC still scrambles my brain, although I can tear up some TC Euphonium (or Bb or Eb Brass band charts in TC on the respective instruments). But... don't even bring up tenor clef. I used to think I had to master everything and now have matured to enjoy what I am confident with. As amateurs, we want to have fun playing and when the mental work becomes overwhelming it can take away from the enjoyment for some. For others that same mental exercise is stimulating and enjoyable. No size fits all. The best solution for the OP is the one his brain can handle and he is comfortable with even if it involves getting another instrument.

[WessCollette]

Reading all of these replies has given me some inspiration to play what I have first, then go from there. Yeah, I will have to learn something new. Surely it won't kill me. Talked to the director this evening and he said even if I didn't play that much now, that I would pick it up. Keep coming, don't give up.

[MaryAnn]

And there you have it.

[oleirgens]

So, only compensated Eb and Bb tubas can be used in a brass band, is that your opinion?

Speaking for myself, it is not my opinion. For most brass bands, there is plenty to work on before the differences between Eb's and F's, or Bb's and C's, become apparent.

At some level, however, small differences become noticeable differences. Top bands don't want to give away anything, especially not something so easily correctable as having compatible horns (yes, compared to the incredible work and dedication and time applied to creating their music, getting matching horns is probably the easiest thing to do).

Hup

I agree, of course. Top level brass bands (like Eikanger Bjørsvik or Manger) will probably not even let you in the door with a non-standard horn. For us on the lower tiers, it is a matter of convenience. I can take my Cc along to brass band rehearsals, pick up a Eb part in treble clef and do the transposition more or less on the fly, adding some b's and adjusting for the pesky accidentals. I also manage to play the Eb part with the native Eb tuba, but my somewhat quirky brain needs some reprogramming from the usual bass clef concert pitch music I play most of the time. This, I guess, goes for most of us amateurs, for which the playing is not bringing food on the table, but is merely a pleasant hobby and recreation. That is also why I never have learned to play the Bb tuba from the concert pitch parts - there is simply not enough time (and brainpower, I guess )

[LibraryMark]

...
It seems to me, though, that those who originated the genre (the Brits) are a bit more strict in their views of this.
...

It seems to me that there would be a lot more brass bands (or I suppose we should call them ensembles at this point) in this country if people didn't have to buy a particular horn just to be a member of one. I, for one, would like to see (and love to play in) an American tradition started whereby you can bring a french horn, trumpet or cornet, euph or baritone, whatever tuba (in whatever key) you have, etc, and have the part correspond to what you are used to, i.e, bass-clef concert pitch for tubas, bones, euphs.

Do we want more people enjoying the art of playing music, or not?

[TMurphy]

...
It seems to me, though, that those who originated the genre (the Brits) are a bit more strict in their views of this.
...

It seems to me that there would be a lot more brass bands (or I suppose we should call them ensembles at this point) in this country if people didn't have to buy a particular horn just to be a member of one. I, for one, would like to see (and love to play in) an American tradition started whereby you can bring a french horn, trumpet or cornet, euph or baritone, whatever tuba (in whatever key) you have, etc, and have the part correspond to what you are used to, i.e, bass-clef concert pitch for tubas, bones, euphs.

Do we want more people enjoying the art of playing music, or not?

Regarding the different keys of tubas, I've played in a section with a mixture of horns on different parts; C tuba on the Bb part, F tuba (and even C tuba) on the Eb part. It works ok. For the past few years now, we've had a section with 3 Ebs and 2 Bbs, with everyone playing the appropriate pitched horn. It works better. I think the most important thing is to keep bass tubas on the Eb part, and contrabasses on the Bb part. It's not uncommon to have C tubas on the Eb part, but it isn't idea, and really throws off the balance of the section, in my opinion.

The other changes you suggest (allowing trumpets or french horns) are frankly much bigger changes to the overall sound of a brass band, in my opinion. There's nothing wrong with that, and I do think it's something we need more of, but if you intend/desire to play serious brass band rep, and do it well, you need to do it with the appropriate instrumentation (as you would with any other ensemble).

[WessCollette]

The reading is starting to get better. What helped me the most was something that most beginner students do, write fingerings under the notes. For now, I am sticking with my CC tuba, but am wanting to buy a better horn.

[Voisi1ev]

The section the basses (and entire band IMO) that had the best tuning were an Eb and F on the top two Eb parts, and a CC and BBb on the 2 Bb parts. The group listened well to each other and fed off strengths and weaknesses.

I've often thought this as when playing in mixed keyed section in any group. If I'm on a bad note I try and listen in extra to the folks with a different keyed horn playing in a better partial. Glad I'm not completely crazy.