Bass Trombone Question

[Matt G]

Conn/King/Yamaha/Getzen

For the Yamaha, I have a soft spot for the YSL-611(R)
I also like the Getzen 1062
King is the Duo-Gravis. A 7B is also sweet. Sometimes these come up for a good deal.
I can’t remember the Conn models.

There are a few dependent valve variants that you can usually pick up for a bit less than the independent ones. While I know you’re looking for something as a first step, single valve bass trombones aren’t as easy to workaround with as double.

Also...

There was a Benge double trigger independent bone made 25-30 years ago. It’s not the best, certainly not popular (I think), but all-around decent enough. Those would probably be pretty inexpensive on the used market.

[Donn]

I believe the word has got out on that Benge, similar to King was it not?

My bass trombone to fool around with was a Reynolds, with one valve. I can get all the notes, because I have that valve pulled out to E (the lowest B is somewhat hypothetical, but that note wasn't going to be the sweet spot of the instrument anyway.) It would be awkward for a regular trombone player, which I'm not; it's only awkward for me in that I haven't learned to play trombone. [ I'm over 6 feet tall and so have fairly long arms. ]

The advantage is not only moderately priced - it's very light. Dangle a bass trombone from your left hand for a while, and feel my point, especially while working two separate valves that may or may not be placed where you can operate them comfortably. I think this might be the criterion to start with: what works in your left hand, which will need to support a fair amount of weight while operating the valves. They'll all sound like trombones.

[Matt G]

Benge 290 has the same bell as the Conn 112, iirc.

Seems like when the Benge do show up they are under $1500.

[basslizard]

Isn't there a clone for the old Conn 62H? I love mine - it's a beefy bass trombone, although my son is abusing it at the moment and getting the hairy eyeball from mean old mama... I let him keep his tenor at school, so he plays my bass trombone for my brass group. Caught him dragging the case down the stairs - thump. thump. thump. Took his cell phone away and put him on 'take the dog out' duty for the weekend. It hurt my soul. He's 16. He knows better.

[tbonesullivan]

Are you looking for one with two valves or one? For single valve there's a lot of good Conn 72H horns floating around, also some 71Hs. The Getzen Eterna series are good as well, as are most of the yamahas from the past 40 years.

[bone-a-phone]

It really depends on how much money you want to spend. Many used boutique basses go over $3k. I'ts possible to get a decent used bass under $2k.

The easiest to find will be Yamaha 620, 613, 611, prices range from <$1k to <$3k. These horns are "inoffensive". I don't think they're great, but they're certainly not bad. The market is flooded with 300 and 400 series Yamaha single valve basses. Yamaha has this tendency to call big bore tenors "Tenorbass". Don't be fooled. These are tenors.

There's also the Bach 50b variants 50b2 and 50b3, along with more exotic valve options. Many people feel these can be inconsistent, so be careful if you buy online. I bought one and loved it. Here's one I'd look at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BACH-S ... SwbJheWbbT" target="_blank

The Conn 62h has a couple versions, the old Elkharts which are venerated and the newer ones, which are readily available. Conn 112h shows up often.

There are two main Getzens, the 1052 and the 1062. I'd recommend the 1052 as it's kind of standard. The 1062 has a giant bore bottom slide, and might be unweildy for a casual bass player.

I play a Kanstul 1662, which is a copy of the old Conn 62h. There are a few around you can find used. Kanstul is out of business.

King has a 7b, which is a pretty standard bass bone, although maybe has a smaller bore through the valves. 8b is a bigger bell and valve bore. The 6b is known as the Duo Gravis, and is much beloved by people who love smaller bore bass trombones. This is highly sought after for lighter, big band stuff. You can generally get them for around $1500+/-

Benge was related to King, and the 290 had a big bell, but is generally highly regarded, although I played one and thought it was unweildy. These are usually reasonably priced ($1k - $1500)

Holton makes/made the 181, 180, and a number of older horns which are again highly regarded. You can get the 181 or 180 for generally less than $2k.

Olds made some double valve basses, but these are more for niche players or modders. I love the p24g, and own a s20. I wouldn't recommend an olds for a casual player. The can be tough ergonomically speaking, and mechanically quirky.


If you want to go Chinese, I'd recommend the Wessex pbf565 is really nice ($1800), and the pbf562 is adequate (~$1k)


I've heard good things about Jupiter 1240

Eastman are generally decent horns.

JPRath/Packer and the lower (x00) Raths are said to be great.

Horns without a name are generally Chinese, and may be ok, or may be trash.

The condition of the slide is important. It can be repaired or improved, but not by every technician, and not in every situation (depends on the type of damage).



And then there's the whole dependent/independent valve arrangement question. Dependent valves require the first valve to be activated before the second valve will have any effect. Independent means the valves can be used independently or together. The biggest difference is that independent gives you a lot more options, which can be good or bad. If you're a casual player, I don't expect dependent or independent will make a lot of difference to you (are you really going to engage just the second valve by itself to get Db and Gb in 1st position?)

The most common tuning is Bb/F/D (the D is for both valves, sometimes independent horns will be listed as Bb/F/Gb/D), although Bb/F/Eb and even Bb/F/E tunings are available. I own a dependent Bb/F/Eb and an independent Bb/F/D, and find the D tuning more useful, and generally prefer the independent arrangement because yes, I do get Db and Gb in 1st position.

There's a lot to know, but not much of it makes sense until you get one and play it. I'd personally get a Bach, Conn or King for $1500, take it to a brass tech and have him fix it up for $2-$300, and then play the spit out of it.

Best of luck.

[Worth]

Why not contact DJ Kennedy via the trombone forum? He could most likely fix you up with something decent without breaking the bank.

[Donn]

The market is flooded with 300 and 400 series Yamaha single valve basses. Yamaha has this tendency to call big bore tenors "Tenorbass". Don't be fooled. These are tenors.

YBL-321 is said to have a .562 bore, which makes it a bass trombone as far as I know. You're talking about other models, or have a different definition of bass trombone? There seem to be plenty of players who think it exactly fills the bill - not glamorous and therefore reasonably economical, but a good playing instrument and usually well made. And light.

With one valve, the length of the slide is more of an issue; Conn 72H and similar, I think everyone agrees that they have a longer than average slide (and therefore a shorter bell section); don't know about the 321. I don't know where things stand today, but a couple years back, it seemed like every bass trombone player had or wanted a 72H, but very few expected to be able to play it since their performing act depended on a second valve, so I guess its superior virtues had to be manifested from inside its case.

[bone-a-phone]

YBL-321 is said to have a .562 bore, which makes it a bass trombone as far as I know. You're talking about other models, or have a different definition of bass trombone?

YBL are bass. Some of the YSL Yamaha refers to as Tenorbass. Those are tenors. Not my definition. Yamahas.
https://www.yamaha.com/en/musical_instr ... ay003.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Maybe I should have put the bit about tenorbass on a different line. Bass and tenorbass are two different things. I think tenorbass is just Yamahas way of referring to large bore tenors. Just because it has "bass" in the name doesn't make it a bass trombone.

I've forgotten about the Yamaha trombone cult. They get very offended if you don't gush.

[JESimmons]

Why not contact DJ Kennedy via the trombone forum? He could most likely fix you up with something decent without breaking the bank.

The trombone forum no longer exists. Trombonechat does, but DJ didn’t make the move over. I understand he can be reached through Facebook. I bought a couple of trombones through him and recommend him, too.

[Matt G]

YBL are bass. Some of the YSL Yamaha refers to as Tenorbass. Those are tenors. Not my definition. Yamahas.

I forgot about that designation in my original post. YBL-611 or YBL-612 are what I was referencing.

Regarding the Holton, that thing had a really short bell. So much so that positions felt off when coming from a tenor.

Doing a bit of research yields that the Benge 290 is getting some popularity decades after its demise. Specs-wise looks to be a 8B valve body and a Conn 110H bell. These usually had interchangeable leadpipes as well.

King 8Bs are cool in that they sound huge, but they seem to demand a bit higher price.

[tbonesullivan]

I was watching a Yamaha YBL-613H at Dillon Music, and they were asking $3495. It actually went at that price, so there definitely is some demand for the Yamaha Basses. A NEW YBL-830, which replaced the 613H over a decade ago, currently goes for around $4600. It WAS in great shape though, and had the original case and G slide.

Right now, Dillon Music has a Kanstul 1585 up, which is their Bach 50 type independent trombone. They also have a 1662I, the independent version of the 62H tuning in slide horn.

[JaxBen_20J]

If it's just for noodling and side work, AND you want two valves, I can second the comment about the Mack. I got mine used in mint condition and it's a remarkably solid horn. I don't gig with it, so I don't know how it would hold up there, but for just playing for the sheer fun of it, I really like mine.

[Worth]

Why not contact DJ Kennedy via the trombone forum? He could most likely fix you up with something decent without breaking the bank.

The trombone forum no longer exists. Trombonechat does, but DJ didn’t make the move over. I understand he can be reached through Facebook. I bought a couple of trombones through him and recommend him, too.

I've got a older Bach Strad 36 with F attachment via someone local via DJ that is a sweet horn. His FB contact is https://www.facebook.com/acmetrombones" target="_blank
You can certainly go new Chinese, but a quick contact via the above link could turn up something cool or not, who knows?

[Matt G]

' funny how - via a range of small shank mpc's from 52E2 up to 12C - a 36B (though, perhaps, not the "ideal" instrument for most of them) can cover just about any part.

When in college, one of the best "bass trombone" players I heard was a dude with fantastic range on a Bach 42BO playing on a 5G.