Squirrely 4th Partial? Tips?

[tbonesullivan]

Well, now that I've got pretty much no other musical activities going on, it's the perfect time to put some real time in on my BBb tuba. I however am having quite a bit of trouble centering the 4th partial, the one with 2nd line Bb as the open note. I can't tell if I have a double buzz going on, or something else. The partials above and below are good.

I checked my horn for leaks, but didn't find any. I also played a bit on another BBb tuba down at Dillon Last week, and noticed the same thing. Is this a partial that is just normally harder to center, or is it just a problem with me and working from playing trombone? It seems like if I hold the note for a while it settles, and if I mouthpiece buzz the note before playing it, it centers better for a while.

[GC]

I've had several tubas with this sharp partial problem. That's another reason I love [no, I'm not gonna marry it] my JP377 Eb; it doesn't have it. Once I get my slides set, it's the most in-tune instrument I've ever owned.

[tbonesullivan]

I've had several tubas with this sharp partial problem. That's another reason I love [no, I'm not gonna marry it] my JP377 Eb; it doesn't have it. Once I get my slides set, it's the most in-tune instrument I've ever owned.

I will say that even when trying out tubas, the Eb one I tried just "worked". Contrabass tuba is just such a different animal. Even though it's the same pitches, the air flow and feel are radically different. I had played a bunch on a Yamaha YEB-321, which is basically just like their YEP-321 Euphonium, but bigger. I kinda wish I had bought it, but I really wanted a 3+1 compensator. I was quite happy when I found the YBB-631 I have now.

At least I've got plenty of time to practice! Once I sell a bunch of guitars, I'm probably going to pick up either another bass trombone, or an Eb Tuba. Most likely I'm gonna hunt down a YEB-631 so I have the set, and can go further down the Yamaha fanboy rabbit hole.

[tbonesullivan]

I mean, for a year or so with trombone I had trouble the third partial. It was a long time ago, and frustrating, but I worked it out eventually. It was more those specific notes than anything else. Maybe a buzzing issue. Time will tell.

[tbonesullivan]

It seems as though my observations/beliefs are controversial, though, regarding the "how lips vibrate" thing. I tend to not go into it much, here, because it seems to "trigger" some people.

It triggers people no matter what people say. If it works for someone, who cares? It's like people arguing over the tuning of Independent Bass Trombones. Everyone was SETTLED on Bb/F/Gb/D, but then along came Blair Bollinger with his own tuning, and then Denson Pollard "regressed" back to the Bb/F/G/Eb tuning, because honestly the G valve is much more useful within the staff.

So once a month on trombonechat, the argument breaks out again.

[tbonesullivan]

After about a week, I'm thinking my lips may just be getting tired. When I first pick up the horn, I am able to lock in just fine, but half way through warming up, it starts to go. Then I can work to get it back with no double buzz or flipping between partials.

Time will tell.

[Doug Elliott]

Squirrelly notes and double buzzes that occur in the midrange are usually because the downstream or upstream orientation of the lips becomes less distinctly one or the other and starts to flip direction. When you're in that situation it does take muscle to control, so getting tired is a factor. But the real long term answer is to move your placement slightly up or down, or your jaw position in or out, so the airstream becomes more definitely in the direction that works easily over the most range.

Mouthpiece placement that might not be a problem on trombone becomes a problem on a tuba mouthpiece because either your nose or chin pushes you close to 50/50 where the problem is most likely to occur.

[Worth]

Something I also experienced in the mid range back when making the switch from euphonium to tuba. It resolved as I developed my embouchure but took some time, practice and patience to overcome. This explanation by Doug Elliott makes perfect sense.

[tbonesullivan]

Mouthpiece placement that might not be a problem on trombone becomes a problem on a tuba mouthpiece because either your nose or chin pushes you close to 50/50 where the problem is most likely to occur.

I definitely have noticed more of a positioning issue, partly due to simply how the tuba is made. I don't have as much control on placement as angle as I do on a trombone. I try to keep the mouthpiece centered, but sometimes it slips away. I thankfully have a good amount of space around my lips to work with.

[Doug Elliott]

Stop "trying to keep the mouthpiece centered" and figure out where it works best, which is most likely not there.

[tbonesullivan]

Stop "trying to keep the mouthpiece centered" and figure out where it works best, which is most likely not there.

Yeah, I think I overthought things, and was trying to make them happen too soon. With trombone I find half and half is generally where my mouthpiece sits. I guess I was trying to replicate that on the tuba.

[Doug Elliott]

As you probably know I'm available on Skype if you want advice.

The 50/50 downstream embouchure type works if your jaw is receded and you angle down, because that position keeps you downstream.