tuba main slide trigger bigotry

[peterbas]

Deleted

[Matt G]

The idea behind moving slides is to make the horn as close to the proper length as possible for optimal amplification of the buzz.

The less work involved with this process, the better. A single point of action is the most elegant solution.

We can all talk about who pulls slides and who doesn’t and if that makes them cool or not, but physics is a real thing and there’s a lot of compromises in tuba design. A MTS mechanism amends some of these.

[Charlie C Chowder]

To answer your original question, No she should marry another tuba player.

CCC

[tbonesullivan]

I see some of this in both directions with Compensating Euphoniums. Factory installed triggers are relatively recent, and many makers still offer professional horns both with and without the trigger. Those with it look down on those without, and those without look down on those with.

[Rick Denney]

The idea behind moving slides is to make the horn as close to the proper length as possible for optimal amplification of the buzz.

The less work involved with this process, the better. A single point of action is the most elegant solution.

We can all talk about who pulls slides and who doesn’t and if that makes them cool or not, but physics is a real thing and there’s a lot of compromises in tuba design. A MTS mechanism amends some of these.

bingo.

this as well:
Some of the EASIEST-to-play-in-tune tuba bugles feature a common flaw:
two or more fifth partial pitches being FLAT.
Though some of the EASIEST to play in tune feature little more than this flaw, this flaw either defines (minor to epic) "lipping" or playing those pitches with more tubing - on the sixth partial. A main slide trigger (on some of these EASIEST-to-play-in-tune tubas) retains all the easiness, PLUS allows the fifth partial pitches to be played with (most desirable) "beginner band book" valve combinations...

...but (at least, to my tastes) it needs to be spring-loaded (returning to it's "set" position on its own), so that it requires as little additional thinking as possible, and distracts from the music at little as possible.

My Hirsbrunner is in the category of easy-to-play-in-tune, but sports a typically flat fifth partial (and a bit of a sharp fourth partial--easy to adjust--and a sharp top-space G). It was provided with an adjustable first slide, which is indeed spring-loaded. The slide also is made with socks like a trombone slide so that the friction is low enough that the spring actually works. I lube it with oil, not grease. One finger can push it in two inches to bring up the C and D (fingered 1-2, the way the Germans teach it) on the staff, and letting go it returns to normal on its own. The same finger can pull it out two inches for the 8th-partial G, fingered 1-2. That being said, I usually don't need to adjust the C and D, because I'm playing in an amateur group, and everyone is flat on those notes. In my quintet, where intonation is both easier to hear and much less...variable...everything seems to line up without a lot of heroics.

The only complaint about my F tuba is that the whole instrument is generally on the flat side. I think that's just me and my flabby chops, but I've gone to a mouthpiece with a little less volume (a Mike Finn 4, which isn't as good in the low register but everything is a trade-off), which seems to help.

The Holton has the usual big-tuba issues, but it's easy to steer. Bloke, at my request, cut off two inches of first-valve slide on that one, too.

Once upon a deeply past time, I made a main slide trigger for a Vespro Bb rotary tuba, probably made by VMI. That was a nice tuba, but the fifth partial was a worse problem than usual. I shortened the main slide, realigned it, and then constructed a bell-crank to turn a tuning stick at right angles to operate the main slide. Pushing down sharpened the instrument. That was spring-loaded, too, but for the spring to work as intended, everything had to be spotlessly clean and lubed.

My Martin fiberglass tuba has three valves, and needs the trigger it has on the main slide. Not spring-loaded, but easily could be. I need to give that instrument some attention during my enforced home time--it could be a most usable instrument with some repair and sprucing up.

Rick "Leonard Jung installed that main-slide trigger when he owned the instrument" Denney

[cjk]

I see some of this in both directions with Compensating Euphoniums. Factory installed triggers are relatively recent, and many makers still offer professional horns both with and without the trigger. Those with it look down on those without, and those without look down on those with.

yup...
My Willson 2900 would actually benefit from a "backwards" trigger (which would pull the main slide IN for the Bb/A top-of-staff "tuning notes").
That is a much simpler type of trigger to build, compared to those seen-on-several-models "push out" triggers...but (well...) I still haven't yet done it.

bloke "That having been said, I have done the hardest part; I've precision-aligned the main slide in anticipation of installing a trigger."

Well if you're talking about your yoophoneeeum, aren't main tuning slide triggers for those value enhancing features these days?

If you were building a trigger for yourself AND you wanted to potentially increase the resale value, I would think you would want to design and build a trigger which goes both in and out even if you only ever wish to pull the slide in yourself.

[marccromme]

I'd like to put one on my Eb, but it's to mainly help on the Low F (2345 pull 4) or (1345 push 4). And possibly the 24 combination (depending on trigger location)

Yes,thats where I grab my 4 th valve slide, conveniaty placed on top with fine reach, and compensate. Thats a MW 2141 5 valve. Another one is the low Ab, 4+5, which needs a small pull. The rest is normally fine as is, unless maybe I have an unusual harmonic in a cord, or the orchester did drift away.

[cjk]

not needed, in this particular instance...and self-centering spring triggers tend to be not as reliable (as far as returning absolutely to their original positions) as are one-way triggers

looks like you might have thought about this before.

I was trying to think of a good way to describe exactly the following

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61190" target="_blank

One possibility if you must tune to an A is to use 13 instead of 2. On most euphoniums that will raise the A, perhaps enough to give you a good tuning center.

Didn't the Conn Constellation trigger go both in and out? I seem to recall it had a double spring, but it's been a while since I've played on one. If I'm right that might be a good design to look at for ideas.

That over-engineered thing I've seen on the B&S (and Miraphone?) is designed to be mashed inward (towards the back of the instrument) with the L.H. thumb. Were that same lever sticking out towards the front of the instrument (rather than flush), I suppose it could be mashed forward/down instead of to the rear.

Your post didn't suggest this possibility, but it directly lead to me thinking about this possibility. Thanks!

[Rick Denney]

not needed, in this particular instance...and self-centering spring triggers tend to be not as reliable (as far as returning absolutely to their original positions) as are one-way triggers

looks like you might have thought about this before.

I was trying to think of a good way to describe exactly the following

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=61190" target="_blank" target="_blank

One possibility if you must tune to an A is to use 13 instead of 2. On most euphoniums that will raise the A, perhaps enough to give you a good tuning center.

Didn't the Conn Constellation trigger go both in and out? I seem to recall it had a double spring, but it's been a while since I've played on one. If I'm right that might be a good design to look at for ideas.

That over-engineered thing I've seen on the B&S (and Miraphone?) is designed to be mashed inward (towards the back of the instrument) with the L.H. thumb. Were that same lever sticking out towards the front of the instrument (rather than flush), I suppose it could be mashed forward/down instead of to the rear.

Your post didn't suggest this possibility, but it directly lead to me thinking about this possibility. Thanks!

With 4.5 bazillion posts, you're expecting Bloke to be consistent with everything he's written in the past?

Rick "whose tone is uncentered enough not to need a centering system that returns absolutely to its original position" Denney